Comments

  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Suppose cosmologists develop a testable theory that accounts for the conditions at the big bang? Would you abandon your hypothesis, or revise it? — Relativist
    Notice @Gnomon did not answer ...
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    You sound confident about the independence of our world from any uncaused First Cause.Gnomon
    :up:

    [W]hat is the "exact nature" of that prior state, ...
    TBD (by physics, not metaphysics)..

    ... and what is the evidence for it?
    e.g. Black holes, cosmic inflation (i.e. accelerated expansion), quantum uncertainty (re: vacuum energy), Pauli Exclusion Principle ...

    Have those cosmologists solved the "puzzle" of the hypothetical "prior state" with facts that us amateur philosophers don't know, ...
    Not yet.

    ... or are they just guessing, ...?
    I prefer the informed, educated guesswork of cosmologists to almost all non-scientists' 'speculative wankery' (e.g. "unmoved mover" "first cause" "creator-programmer") à la woo-of-the-gaps. :mask:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    That there are things which "be". That implies non-beingAmadeusD
    I've no idea what this means, or what "that" refers to. Besides, "implies" doesn't do the work of causes ...

    What exists today is a consequence of what existed before.Relativist
    :up: :up:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Do you not find it mysterious how non-being eventually turned into being?kindred
    No I don't. What are (some) Intelligible grounds to believe that 'nonbeing became being'?

    Cosmology has not concluded our world is dependent on anything.Relativist
    :up:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Apparently 180 doesn't see any purpose to an evolving world that began with nothing (zero) but Potential (infinity) and has produced inquiring Minds that explore the mystery of Being.Gnomon
    On the contrary, as I've stated in many other posts, the purported BB (@ negative 13.81 billion years) is the earliest moment modern science can measure in the inflationary-entropic development of spacetime and (our) "inquiring Minds" are evolved ephemerae who are atavistically motivated to confabulate various self-comforting, narrative denials of the reality that "inquiring Minds" are only ephemerae (à la Buddha's anicca, Democritus' atomic swirl, Spinoza's finite modes ...)

    As far as I can tell, there is no "mystery of being", just a near-universal, stubborn fear of nonbeing; thus, (cosmic/existential) "purpose" begins with resisting the fear (re: E. Becker, PW Zapffe ... Epicurus).

    Lastly, 'nothing comes from nothing' (i.e. no-thing includes no "Potential (infinity)") :smirk:
  • What Is Fiction and the Scope of the Literary Imagination: How May it be Understood Philosophically?
    So much thinking may become so concrete, as if models, including the mathematical and scientific ones, are seen as all encompassing. This may show a bias and diminishing of human reasonJack Cummins
    The way I see it – if such models, for all their limitations, are both prevalent and more adaptive than the alternatives, then all the better for our reasoning capabilities and practices.
  • What Is Fiction and the Scope of the Literary Imagination: How May it be Understood Philosophically?
    Is story and metaphor central to all understanding of 'truth'?Jack Cummins
    I think so.
  • On Matter, Meaning, and the Elusiveness of the Real
    The fact that you replied to me shows that the world is pretty much as it seems.Banno
    :up:
  • The passing of Vera Mont, dear friend.
    We are all mortal beings as we pursue the philosophical questions. Everything in life is impermanent and all exploration occurs within the uncertainties of an unknown future.Jack Cummins
    :death: :flower:
  • The passing of Vera Mont, dear friend.
    Very sad. Vera, I'll miss you. :broken: :flower:
  • What are you listening to right now?
    *a blues played in a "mock opera" style*

    Thunderbolt and lightning,
    very, very frightening
    me
    (Galileo)
    Galileo,
    (Galileo)
    Galileo,
    Galileo Figaro,
    magnifico ...

    "Bohemian Rhapsody" (5:55)
    A Night at the Opera, 1975
    writer Freddie Mercury
    performers Queen


    trivia – Freddie played this on the very same grand piano that Macca played "Hey Jude" on.
  • What Is Fiction and the Scope of the Literary Imagination: How May it be Understood Philosophically?
    Reformulate the question?

    I think we still think "in terms of story" – how could humans not? – such that philosophy produces reflective and suppositional stories about concepts (whereas modern science produces mathematical model-based stories about factual aspects of the world).
  • On Matter, Meaning, and the Elusiveness of the Real
    There is no such thing as truth.Kurt
    Refutes itself.

    Yes, because 'metaphysical statements' are themselves only, in effect, categorical interpretations of – conceptual proposals about – formal truth claoms or empirical truth claims.
  • What Is Fiction and the Scope of the Literary Imagination: How May it be Understood Philosophically?
    You seem to have missed this
    logos has been used to demythologize – but cannot fully eliminate – mythos180 Proof
    It's not a matter of 'narrativity' or the absence of it but to use logos to transform mythos into narratives which frame - interpret as – explanable models (i.e. 'predictive' fact-patterns). This, I think, is what Thales and other Pre-Socratics (6th-4th century BCE) were up to.
  • On Matter, Meaning, and the Elusiveness of the Real
    Idealists don't play in traffic?RogueAI
    Won't find any in foxholes either. :smirk:

    One, in fact, can live by bread alone a hell of a lot longer than one can live on faith alone. Why? Because the latter denies reality.
  • On Matter, Meaning, and the Elusiveness of the Real
    what if what I am seeing is not what is really there, ...?Kurt
    Idle question(s). 'Your context' does not provide any grounds to doubt "what is really there" and, in such a context, you're "seeing" is indubitable (pace Zhuangzi ... Descartes ... Kant ...) so that it makes most sense for (sober, awake, pragmatic) you to act accordingly.

    NB: AFAIK, the real is ineluctable and therefore inevitably hazardous to everyone who neglects or ignores it.
  • What Is Fiction and the Scope of the Literary Imagination: How May it be Understood Philosophically?
    What do you think about the juxtaposition between ]logos and myth in the scheme of philosophical understanding?Jack Cummins
    Well, at least as far back as Thales, logos (re: "laws") has been used to demythologize – but cannot fully eliminate – mythos (re: "gods") in order to raise intelligible questions about 'reality or ourselves' which we do not know (yet) how to decisively answer. Suppositions and interpretations, not explanations, are the best, imho, (we) philosophers can do with nothing more than 'conceptual schema'.
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    I'm suspicious of using this explanatory gap as an excuse to believe in some sort of spiritualism.Relativist
    :up: Same here. In my book this "excuse" amounts to appeal to ignorance (i.e. woo-of-the-gaps).

    If such a God is woo-woo nonsense, then so is Zero & Infinity.Gnomon
    Well, not only doesn't that follow (category error), but all three concepts are mere abstractions; what makes any of them "woo woo nonsense" is attributing causal – physical – properties to any of them like "creator" "mover" ... "programmer". :eyes:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    I embrace physicalism because (AFAIK) it's the best general answer to the nature of reality. I don't have some undying faith in it, and I know it has its limitations. But I treat it as the premise when analyzing everything in the world. This seems the most pragmatic approachRelativist
    I agree. Idealism, antirealism, immaterialism ... quantum woo-woo, etc are much poorer alternatives. :up:

    :smirk:
  • Consequences of Climate Change
    Behold, the enemy!unenlightened
    The late, great Anthropocene. :monkey:
  • How May Empathy and Sympathy Be Differentiated? What is its Significance Conceptually and in Life??
    I am thinking that your issues may come down to diabetes, which is so prevalent.Jack Cummins
    Yes.

    embodied beings
    needing compassion

    [W]e're not in a position to know whether people care about others or not. We can only judge by actions, not by sentiment or professed values. What do people actually do?Tom Storm
    :100:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    I go with the theory that once upon a time, nothing existed. Then all of a sudden, something came into existence.alleybear
    Nonsense. "Nothing" necessarily cannot "exist".

    [A]ll I know about this logical necessity ...Gnomon
    ... except, sir, you don't seem to grasp that "logical necessity", as you say, does not scientifically have anything to do with dynamics in or the development of the physical world.

    ... how we, and our world, evolved from mathematical Big Bang Singularity
    The BBT is a model of physical processes; (the) "mathematical" is merely abstract and, therefore, cannot "evolve".

    :up:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    It's an unsupported assertion, not an argument. Besides, I concede the point in order to make my objection to your other assertion about physics.
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Are you familiar with D M Armstrong?Wayfarer
    Yes, decades ago.
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    [P]hysics is based on a useful abstraction, which has yielded enormous physical powers, but at the expense of excluding fundamental aspects of human existence.Wayfarer
    Even if this 'claim' is true – of course there's no evidence for it – so what? Physics explains many fundamental aspects of the physical world and not (yet) others; "human existence" is tangentally something else entirely outside modern physics' remit. Why do you persist on blaming physics for not doing something that physicists don't use it for? Re: materialism – You're (still) shadowboxing with a burning strawman, Wayf.
  • How May Empathy and Sympathy Be Differentiated? What is its Significance Conceptually and in Life??
    ... thinking about the nature of compassion.Jack Cummins
    I'm currently in a rehabilitation facility (for a couple of more months) with other post-op amputees and variously disabled elders where I'm confronted especially each night by sounds of acute pains (and prolonged indignities due to staffing shortage) which, even as a recovering patient/resident in this place, I'm not prepared to ignore or disregard. Is this "compassion" (now thwarted by own incapacity)?

    Does Empathy Always Lead to Sympathy?
    No. The latter is active and former passive.

    I see this question as particularly significant as so much is becoming 'robotic' and machine-based?
    And what about, for instance, the atrocities and abuses countless generations of folks long before this era have inflicted on one another as if they were "machine-like robots" completely devoid of "empathy" and "sympathy"? The modern world, global civilization, was not built or maintained by "compassion", mate – current technocapitalism, imo, doesn't make today's "compassion" problem any more acute and dire than it was back when the Upanishads were being written.

    Is it leading to moral indifference and based on the philosophy of the objective idea of the importance of 'emotional detachment as an ethical ideal?
    No, as pointed out above.

    What do you think about the ideas of sympathy, empathy and its relevance for life?.
    They are (like) moods; the relevant capability, or trait, is compassion – motivation stronger than sympathy to actually help alleviate another person's suffering – actually helping one another.
  • Where does logic come from? Some thoughts
    Logic is not inherent in existence itself, whatever that means. To the extent it is a discovery, it is a discovery about the way our minds work, not about anything in the world outside ourselves.T Clark
    Just as there is no ocean "outside of" ocean-waves, there is no "world outside ourselves" because we – our minds – are aspects of the world itself rather than a separate Cartesian substance. Maybe it's how you've expressed your point, T Clark, that doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, I'll go on: my point – maybe not quite the OP's – is not that "logic is inherent in existence" but, parsimoniously, that logic is existence (i.e. 'universes' themselves are logico-computable processes ~Spinoza ... Deutsch, Wolfram, Tegmark) about / from which we (can) derive abbreviated syntaxes & formulae (which are, in effect, maps yet often mistaken for terrain (e.g. Plato-Aristotle, Kant-Husserl, Russell-Carnap)). :chin:

    @jgill @Banno
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    So - magical? Well, I think not, but something even greater in some respects
    — Wayfarer
    This is what I see as an enormous problem in your position. It depends on uncritically accepting the existence of magic (or "something even greater"). I've seen no justification for this other than arguments from authority (the ancients had this view) and arguments from ignorance (physicalism's explanatory gap).
    Relativist
    :fire:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Could it be that humans are unrealistically impressed by reason, treating it as the highest or even only valid form of understanding? But reason is just one tool among many, and has limited use. It struggles with emotions, ambiguity, and subjective experiences. It's clear that no logical argument can fully capture grief, happiness, aesthetic appreciation, or empathy. I wonder if we overestimate its power, forgetting that perhaps it evolved for survival, not for solving metaphysical puzzles or guaranteeing truth.Tom Storm
    :up: :up:

    Idealists tend to put the cart before the horse forgetting, as you say, or denying (E. Becker) that 'truth' presupposes (pre-cognitive pragmatics, or the enactive context, of) 'survival' ... to which reason at minimum is adapted (i.e. embodied = instantiated).
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Plantinga's argument is fatally flawed. In order to survive, every organism needs a functionally accurate perception of its environment to successfully interact with it. Primitive rationality is exhibited when animals adapt there hunting behavior when necessary, doing things that work instead of those that don't. The evolution of abstract reasoning would have been an evolutionary dead end leading to extinction, if it worsened our ability to interact with the environment.Relativist
    :up: :up:
  • Where does logic come from? Some thoughts
    The moment anything exists - anything that has potential for differentiation - logical structure emerges naturally. Where there's being, there's logic.tom111
    I'd go even further and claim, in a Spinozist sense, that logic IS being and that the law of non-contradiction (LNC) entails differentiations (i.e. multiplicities, or discontinua (à la 'atoms flowing in void')). Though 'systems of logic' are invented (i.e. derived), my guess is the applicability to being of such inventions is discovered as any given landscape of modalities (i.e. phase space) is explored.
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    What I haven't seen is a justification for believing there is ontological teleology. It seems a guess, just like physicalism is a guess - but physicalism strays very little from the known.Relativist
    :up: :up:
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    It seems to me "intentionality and purpose are left out" simply because there is no objective evidence that supports leaving them in any account of how the world has become what it "appears to us" to be. Like qualia, "telos" doesn't explain anything scientists endeavor to explain. Camus points out, I think reasonably, that the world might have a 'fundamental or universal purpose' but by virtue of scale we humans are almost certainly too small or ephemeral to recognize and grasp it. The Sisyphusean challenge is for each one of us to strive to live purposefully in spite of being ignorant or unsure of whether the world itself has any purpose. Or we can live in denial, fetishizing hand-me-down fairytales, myths, superstitions, theodicies, woo-of-the-gaps metaphysics or baroque mysticisms (re: e.g. Ernest Becker's 'terror management, immortality projects').
  • More Sophisticated, Philosophical Accounts of God
    Do you think reason is a useful means of evaluating conceptions of God?Tom Storm
    Yes. I don't see why it wouldn't be useful.