forget all that talk of "meaning"

the word doesnt stand for anything.

language is nothing but sounds and shapes that get associated to recorded sense data in the mind

People who don't recognize my brilliance are simply afraid of the truth! Yeah, that's it. — Eee

the above is caused by the below

An maybe 'ego' also whispers to us about some true nature that isn't really there — Eee

That we understand only what we make? — Eee

“Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche

ego prevents people from seeing themselves for what they really are. which blocks true knowledge of what the mind is and how it works, which prevents the construction of A.I.

We're already here doing that. — Eee

if you cant bulid a mind yet, then you still dont really understand it

Explain using meaningless mystical meanings, I suppose? — Eee

no

explain what the mind is in substance and how it works in process

forget "meaning"

new conspiracy theory: trump is telling the truth and the entire justice system, congress, and media, are all in a giant conspiracy against him.

i call this new conspiracy theory: trump supporter.

start feeling the emotions physically first — Pfhorrest

1- beliefs which are subconscious
2- emotional reaction to your own beliefs
3- thought reaction to your emotions

cause and effect

The works of Shakespeare exist because they have meaning. That meaning comes from human consciousness and its medium, language. — Chris Hughes

meaning is meaningless

meaning is mysticism

anytime anyone is talking about meaning (mental masturbation) they are not talking about what actually exists and in what way it exists.

language has no intrinsic meaning, its just shapes and sounds.

knowledge has no meaning its just a map of the territory

there is no meaning outside of the mind nor inside of it. its just an ambiguous word used by the ignorant to support their magical mysticism.

when people talk about meaning its like talking about superman. sure you can talk about it but its not actually real. the smart thing to do would be to break meaning down into what it actually is. explain the processes of the mind and how they work.

emotions are just a reflection of beliefs, they follow that, so they have no blame in themselves for anything

anyone who blames emotions is ignorant of the beliefs creating them

negative emotions come from negative beliefs

if that belief is true then that emotion is justified

so the real problem is true vs false. not positive vs negative

Wouldn't it be nice if philosophy were this easy. Then we could put it in fortune cookies. — Joshs

“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.”

― Albert Einstein

reality is color, sound, feeling, taste, smell

how do you get an object from that?

you dont

you group certain qualia together in the mind and call it an object. but the object doesnt actually exist in reality or the mind. its just a word for a function

i solved the problem without having to write a big essay

In order to understand consciousness, it is necessary to recognize the inextricable interdependence of subjective and objective aspects of all experiencing of a world. All understanding takes place and organizes itself relative to a background field. There is no meaning without this relational structure of figure-ground and this is the meaning of consciousness. Intelligence has no sense without meaning and meaning has no senses outside of conscious processes of relationality. We can talk about dispositions, capacities ad potentialities that are latent in a person, but intelligence is only discerned via meaningful , intentional behavior. Intelligence has to manifest itself via the constructions of conscious intentions. Otherwise it remains a latent potentiality. — Joshs

relativity, relation, meaning, are all illusions

dont exist in reality

and intelligence and consciousness do not require each other

Any explanation of intelligence that doesnt understand conscioussness is not an explanation, only a superficial description. — Joshs

intelligence does not require consciousness

and consciousness does not require intelligence

they are completely separate things

dont muddle them

intelligence and consciousness are two different things

dont get them mixed up

explaining intelligence still doesnt explain consciousness at all

dont mix up the easy problem with the hard problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness

Can you prove that or are you just guessing? — A Seagull

it can be proven absolutely. because something cannot come from nothing and therefore causality must be omnipresent and eternal. therefore motivation and choice are not starting points. and therefore consciousness is not needed in that way for behavior or survival

3 core aspects of existence are:
1-substance
2-patterns
3-motion

motion changes the patterns which are made of the substance

this is existence

nothing is separate from it

all 3 must be eternal

human identity (separate self with free will) is a kind of illusion that "sits ontop" of this deeper omnipresent reality. but can be a core part of the illusion of human life, and so necessary for the game to play out.

god is playing peek-a-boo with himself. he hides as a human then sees his real self

As for why pain needs to be unpleasant rather than just a signal to the brain, I suggest that if it were merely a signal it could be ignored, like spam in one's inbox, to the detriment of the survival of the organism. — A Seagull

motivation and choice are not starting points for behavior, but just links in the chain of causality. and so they are not required for behavior.

I feel there might be some truth there, but if it's all just about computation, then much simpler solution is to simply flag signals by priority, just like PC. — Zelebg

there we go

First, any other theory why consciousness? — Zelebg

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness-unity/

A God to me seems like a slave owner, — chromechris

stop thinking of god as a separate person

move your mind towards an unpersonal spirit here now

Looking at it again, I guess you did. At the end where you wrote, “giving answers to whats obvious is a waste of time...”, I must have mistakenly took as acknowledgement that what preceded it was gibberish. — praxis

ultimately nothing can be explained because knowledge is an illusion. its all relative to evidence and if u cannot see that evidence you will never understand or believe the knoweldge that points to it. and if u can see it then you dont need the knowleldge or belief.

You’re free to ignore any questions that make you uncomfortable, of course, but it makes me wonder why a person with such a lack of curiosity would participate in a forum such as this. — praxis

i answered your question

reply to my answer if you wish

if u can see, then my answer is not needed

if u cant see, then no answer will ever be enough

Why not answer the question? — praxis

the mind just records and is a thinner copy of reality

reality is color, sound, feeling, taste, smell

so the mind is a mirror, and echo, a copy, a thinner version of that

that is its content. but not its process

giving answers to whats obvious is a waste of time, and can create confusion, better if u just look and see

What about the subconscious? Does that activity consist of ‘thought’ or is it something else? — praxis

observe and you will see what the mind really is

it takes consciousness to observe

the mind can then process what is observed (which includes itself = psychology, meta-cognition)

I guess that depends on what you call mind. So, what do you think it is? — praxis

mind = thoughts
consciousness = awareness
brain = grey matter

3 different things, dont confuse them

We’re basically talking about a concept, and you’re now giving it the qualities of plain, dark, black, and who knows what else. — praxis

yes im giving it those qualities. there will always be qualities. u cant get away from qualities. and the qualities i gave are the best to remove mind from consciousness

Also, how can be consciousness without mind? — praxis

stop thinking and focus. and u will have consciousness without mind haha

The Parmenidean One — praxis

a plain dark black picture would be the best.

the mind would see it as nothingness and so die in it

then only consciousness would remain.

intelligence and free-will are both mysticism

"intelligence" is basically just a type of pattern and process

and free-will just means you have no gun to your head forcing you. real free-will would require something from nothing which is impossible

reality is patterns and cause&effect. these two things explain nature well enough on their own without needing to bring mysticism into it

I don’t see the need to be vague. If you’re suggesting that there’s a true God, which God is it? — praxis

god is not a person. god is not an individual who is separate from you and has a personality who will judge you.

the real god is un-personal spirit that is here now

That’s a new one for me. Care to elaborate? — praxis

well like i said above atheism is needed to debunk the false gods

false knowledge blocks truth.

mystical experiences often lead people to contrive their own religions, like Ontophilism, for instance. :joke: Our natural desire for meaning is insatiable. — praxis

its not about meaning

its about evidence and explaining that evidence.

if you are blind to that evidence then you will see no need for any explanations of it

For instance when atheists insist that God does not exist, not only is this debatable, but it is also an unknown, as in they only believe that God does not exist, — BBQueue

atheists will help you find the real god, by debunking all the false gods

atheism is the fastest path, the only path, to god

the so-called "religious experience" or "mystical experience" is a neurochemical phenomenon that can be induced with drugs — Pfhorrest

just because the engine light (mystical experience) in your car (consciousness) can be triggered by playing with the wires (drugs) doesnt mean it wasnt meant to be triggered by the engine (god)

the only difference between human and dog is that human has intellect.

and computers already have more intellect then humans

so if you say intellect = superior then computers win

not to mention the other humans that have more intellect then you. i guess you should be their slave haha

How can you prove you have been around that long? How can you prove you have been everywhere? — Alan

only the here now is real, time and space are illusions

Where's consciousness generated, then? — Alan

consciousness is not generated its eternal

and its omnipresent

So, I guess you're just explaining this to yourself and not the OP, right? — Alan

u dont need other consciousness's to exist to have a conversation. you can talk to a computer if it responds well enough

The brains of people in comma remain despite having lost consciousness... — Alan

dont assume other consciousness's exist

How is that the brain generates the private subjective world of the self and then for what purpose? — lorenzo sleakes

u have it backwards. its consciousness that is generating the brain

What I want to focus on is what I perceive is a claim that complexity evolves from simplicity. — TheMadFool

there is a million different ways you might know that you cant know something. say you know that your instrument does not detect certain types of matter. then you know you cannot know about that type of matter until you get a better instrument. and you know you can never know if the material used to create that instrument no longer exists.