Yep, we agree so far...

Many jobs can not be done by machine...especially the sort of stuff I do, but the real drudge can be done by machine...fruit picking..law... that sort of shit.

I'd shoot myself in the head before I took economic advice from a socialist.

I see Nissan are suggesting that Renault should manufacture in the UK....it's fantastic that foreign businesses manufacture here in order to sell here.

I agree with you too, but the world is changing, for instance in the UK we import eastern Europeans in the way the US imports Mexicans to pick fruit...that will soon be done by machine freeing up people from labour...but people will still have to be paid.

I agree.

Not wanting to work is not the same as not being good at it.

I used to think that but since I've been on furlough I've decided I quite like not working. There's plenty to get on with provided you're not struggling for money...plus the missus and I get on well most of the time. Work is generally an unfulfilling drudgery for many people...especially those without the qualifications or training to get a skill/career as opposed to job.

I don't know if anything is wrong with my health...but I'll take a chance with getting back to normal. As for "chronic" I'd say "acute" underlying illness seems to be the issue with covid19.

Just to give context to your figure of 50,000 excess deaths over and above normal, that equates to about 1 death per 1300 people since this virus was introduced here...the vast majority of whom are in a poor state of health.

I know from personal experience that every death that can be associated with covid 19 is being associated with covid 19.I accept that the old, infirm and unwell are at risk from this virus...but the rest of us should be allowed to gradually get back to something approaching normal ,though accepting social distancing and vigorous cleaning regimes.

I think , as I've said before, that any costs involved with Brexit (assuming there are any) are going to be utterly dwarfed by the costs of this lock down. I don't think anywhere in the world is going to do particularly well after this virus disaster.

You can argue that people like me are susceptible to conspiracy theories...but I see it in terms of not automatically accepting what I'm being told by authorities. On the other hand people who dish out the "tinfoil" insult tend to be very keen to believe authority.

As for my example of deaths in the UK recently , that is for perspective purposes. This disease is dangerous for some of those that get it...but it's hardly the black death.This lock down looks like a massive over reaction, Sweden seems to indicate that.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that this is a conspiracy, just that it could be, I'm open minded.

Around 30,000 people are said to have died with/of covid 19 in the UK so far...those numbers are probably inflated. In 2014/15 28,000 people died in the UK from flu.

I have to say that I get the feeling that this Covid 19 virus is real ( though the risks are overblown) but masks an underlying scam. I'm not sure what the scam is , but I've read that the economy was about to tank this year in any case...so maybe the two are connected.

The labour party are an absolute disgrace...they have abandoned the very people they were originally created to represent...they have moved on to represent middle class public sector "workers", students and any minority group that it can stir up against the majority.

How ironic it will be for you if that leftist religion , the NHS, turns out to be responsible for unloading old people with covid 19 into the care homes.

Did you know that the German healthcare system is a public / private partnership? That very thing that leftists like you despise, that you do all you can to block in the UK.People like you must take some of the blame for the poor performance of the NHS...your dogma has handcuffed it.

We have great trade with the US on WTO, we trade more with the US than we do with Germany...explain to me why we can't trade just as well with Germany outside the EU as we do with the US. Do you literally think the Germans are going to stop selling us stuff and that they will also block our sales to them?

Being told to wake up by a hard core leftist is a bit rich...you're still living the 1970's over and over like the fucking ground hog day lol. Most of the English population are politically conservative by nature. The old labour party once had the well being of workers at its heart (though it often had the wrong answers to problems) but now it is more about promoting the rights of certain groups over others. I fall into the white, middle-aged, straight, working class bracket ...that means that the Labour party does not represent my interests in any way...it also explains why a working class area (like where I live) constantly returns Conservative MP's. The "red wall" has also collapsed up north because the only people that vote Labour are public sector workers (teachers etc), students and transexuals. The Labour party is dead , it has abandoned its base.

The Labour party is in a bad way, but there are many public sector workers/students who have nothing to lose by voting for the cretins so it will not drop below a certain level...the staunchly pro-EU lib dems are politically finished...what's that say about the English "love" for the EU?

Germany isn't coming to our rescue, it will come to its own...it needs our market more than we need its.The threat facing Germany is that we can source much of what we get from there from the US and elsewhere.

We already have a great trading relationship with the US, a far better one than we have with Germany...an extension of that relationship will almost certainly bring benefit to both countries.

Just as an aside, I've been wondering if swimmers who regularly dunk themselves in chlorinated water are less likely to get covid 19....

Anyone remember that disinfectant that you could gargle...

You must be the only person in the UK that thinks May did a good job! She was the most hated PM in modern British history, you were literally her only fan lol. The UK does not need the EU to the point where it must surrender its sovereignty to it...Germany needs us more than we need Germany...and as I have shown , Germany is already undermining the single market with mass bail-outs (against EU rules) in the pipeline.

This obsession with leftists about the US healthcare system is merely to deflect from the fact that there are better healthcare models than their new religion the NHS...it's so fucking obvious.

You are a typical leftist...you actually believe the Conservative party have hatched a plot to kill off millions of old people...complete delusion on your part. Do you believe the Spanish and Italians are also engaged in genocide of old and ill people, or is it just the nasty Tories? The death rate per million in the UK is less that Belgium, Spain or Italy...and Germany are probably counting differently. The CCP are the cause of the initial spread of this virus and they may be responsible for the virus itself...but you probably see the CCP as the model for a future UK government.

The fact that there are vulnerable people does not imply that the non-vulnerable can not start to have greater freedoms...but I have noticed that leftists like the population being locked down and controlled...it's your sort of thing .

There is only a tiny chance of being killed by covid 19 , almost all deaths are people already in a bad way in hospital and care homes...so releasing elements of the lockdown are a good idea.

Britain just thinks it is reasonable that it should be treated as well as Canada, South Korea etc. Given what a huge market the UK is for EU goods (compared to those countries) that is not too much to expect, is it?
I think that the Germans will ensure there will be a reasonable deal, they'll override those within the EU (and those like you within the UK) who seek punishment for the UK from the EU, the Germans know how important we are to them.

There is vast scope for trade increases with the USA. If elements of competition , and therefore US in put ,are allowed within the NHS that can only be a good thing. When people bleat about how wonderful the NHS is they never compare it ,to say ,the German system...a German system that has been doing far better with this virus than the NHS.

What is the point of committing to solipsism when it is clear you require others (at least the pretence of others ) in order to survive? In other words, if there is no benefit to an idea what is the point in committing to it? This is where philosophers go wrong, they mistake "clever" arguments for usable knowledge and end up with their own heads firmly buried up their own arses.

Whether something matters is really a question about whether something has inherent value. I'd say that the thing that creates value must have inherent value, it must matter. Consciousness matters.

Here's a link to a young Brexiteer's view of the current situation with regard to the British/EU trade negotiations. You'll notice that he's completely different to the kind of description that the liberal left try to push regarding who voted for Brexit. (You should also realise that the biggest single group who voted to remain were white over 65's).

Anyway, this is a video that will give you some perspective , some balance, if you've been buying into the narrative.

UK Negotiator HUMILIATES EU's Michel Barnier On Twitter

At least you're admitting that mass immigration isn't so great for the people that already live here...a step in the right direction.

I'm in the construction industry so I've already been hit with the costs of EU membership...low wages due to over supply of labour. In the 70's and 80's roofers earned far more in real terms than they do today.

If you are going to set a trade deal against democracy then the trade deal is going to lose every time in the UK....Europe maybe not.

They didn't vote for a deal either...and now 50% of them support the Tories who are willing to accept no deal.

Did you notice the Germans have dropped any idea of a level playing field ? Nation first for Deutschland.

"everybody in business knows this" is a bullshit statement...many people in business voted for Brexit. And to imply they know the future is the shit icing on shit cake.

Leave won by over a million votes , the English voted overwhelmingly for Brexit, I can't make it any clearer than that for you...and I'll tell you something else for free...most British people accept the result, it seems to be foreigners like yourself that have a problem with democracy.

Here's a piece from the link that doesn't work for you...


North and South are today pursuing radically different policies, according to their economic means, and this will lead to radically different outcomes when Europe emerges from the Covid-19 depression. “It destroys the argument that the EU is rule-compliant. It hits that narrative on the head,” says Prof Lorand Bartels, an expert on trade law and Brexit at Cambridge University.

The Brexit side clearly won by well over a million votes. Bearing in mind the absolute avalanche of anti-Brexit propaganda coming from the main stream media that is an amazing result. Since the referendum the Tory vote share has gone through the roof and the party most in favour of remaining (the lib dems) are absolutely nowhere. People like you don't seem to understand that the foundation of the remain argument was fear, that most people who voted to remain did so out of fear not love for the EU (Brexit voters are far more passionate and voted for it despite the risks) .That fear has dispersed, especially since this virus outbreak has put things in perspective. As an aside, London was the main remain voting area, hardly surprising given that many Londoners are of European/ foreign heritage...ie, not particularly pro-British. English people voted overwhelmingly to leave.

There was never going to be another major war between Western European countries after WW2, there was no desire for such a thing from anyone. If anything the EU is causing greater animosity between nations due to its obvious power grab...its attempts at post-democratic empire building. NATO kept peace between the Eastern bloc and Western Europe...and now it has former Eastern bloc countries as members because they see the benefit.

Whether you like it or not Japan illustrates that a war like country can develop into a peace loving country without being part of a trade cartel.

"Everybody in business knows this" , like fuck they do. They may believe it but they have no more idea of the future than you or I. None of them saw this virus coming did they? None of them knows where this disaster is leading...nor do they know the full ups and downs of Brexit. Only hubris on a monumental scale leads people into believing they know the future...that hubris is one of the markers of remain fanatics.

The EU is already under massive internal strain , this virus could bring it down.

“For the first time in history, the constitutional court has found that the actions and decisions of European bodies overstep their legitimate competence, and therefore have no validity in Germany,” said the court’s president, Andreas Vosskuhle. No country has dared to do this before since the creation of the Community in 1957. It is a revolutionary moment for the European project.

I think the lockdown was correct for the first 4 weeks ...until we knew what we were up against...after that the lockdown has treated the UK citizenry like children. The Swedes have shown the right approach, but the Swedish approach tied to the British first 4 week lockdown would have been correct imo.

Your attitude towards "nobs" is so 1970's mate , really it's daft. That's not to say a great many of them aren't total cunts but they are like the general population, good and bad. One man being rich does not necessitate anyone else being poor, often the very opposite is true.

In a two horse race it's definitely a first past the post situation.

So in your world NATO hasn't kept the peace , the Dutch have wasted their time being members? Economic interdependence can keep the peace to a degree, but we don't need the EU for that...China undermines your points...we are economically dependent on it whilst it is not an UE member and we could be headed to a cold war with it. My using Japan as an example of not needing the EU for peace still stands..it's a perfectly good example that you don't need to be in an economic cartel in order to be peaceful.

The Germans are seeking to bail out their businesses. link

No one knows if a no deal Brexit will cost the UK anything...also I very much doubt if there will be a no deal...unless the EU wants to make a political rather than economically sensible point.If it goes for the former hopefully European citizens who lose their jobs because of an obviously political decision will take actions against the EU. We shall see.

If you bothered to notice I said "many Europeans", that clearly means "not all". There is a growing EU scepticism growing throughout Europe...this virus could well take it to boiling point, we shall see.

I don't trust politicians...as an example I think the Tory handling of this virus crisis has been awful. The majority of the population should no longer be locked down, so the Tories are creating terrible economic damage...but so would Labour and the Lib Dems (probably worse damage due to the innate risk-averseness of the liberal left).

I'll give you a quote from the piece I linked to ...

"Finally, to my second myth: that the vote was too close for the mandate to be meaningful.

On a first-past-the-post basis this is a rout. Remain wins in only three of the 12 regions. This is an over-simplification, so I will refer to the excellent statistical modelling work by Chris Hanretty, Reader of Politics at the University of East Anglia who determined (based on modelling the actual local authority results down to constituency level) that if “Vote Leave” had been a political party it would probably have won 421 seats. A landslide representing 65 per cent of all seats (including Scotland) and 73 per cent of seats in England and Wales. If higher turnout in London and Scotland had tipped Remain over 50 per cent nationally, the result would have lacked a mandate in three-quarters of seats in England and Wales, leading to an historic democratic disaster."

You say that the EU has kept peace in Europe...are you suggesting Nato wasn't responsible? Are you suggesting that Japan has been at war since WW2 because it's not in the EU?

Do you now accept that large German corporations exist ? That if they are bailed out against EU rules
that they will be in a powerful position with regard to Italian or Spanish businesses?

Covid 19 makes the economic impact of Brexit negligible.

That's not the original source of the poll.

To help pin down the lie that most people who voted Brexit were uneducated oafs I thought I would link to this poll that was taken shortly after the referendum. One of the big lies is founded on the fact that older people tended to vote for Brexit and older people tended not to go to university...when I was a teenager in the 80's only 5% went to uni, now half the population goes...probably why standards have dropped and why the students are far easier to mislead lol.

If you're into numbers this makes interesting reading, it shows how the narrative has been hijacked.

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/gary-bennett-stop-blaming-the-old-and-the-ignorant-for-brexit-the-statistics-just-dont-support-these-myths.html