This quote is from Rödl's response — J
I reject the idea that judgment is a propositional attitude.
a propositional attitude is a mental state towards a proposition, such as "Sally believed that she had won"
If the only thing Pat can be certain of is that they have thoughts, then what use is communicating those thoughts if what she thinks she experiences might not be the case, which would be just as true for other human beings as it is for shedding oak trees? — Harry Hindu
Why learn language at all if all you have access to is your thoughts? — Harry Hindu
Isn't you learning a language and then using it to communicate with others exhibiting a degree of certainty that there are things that exist (like other human beings) independent of your thoughts? — Harry Hindu
What does The Lord of the Rings tell us about reality?...................The difference between reality and fiction is their relative locations. — Harry Hindu
The quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Fiction reveals truth that reality obscures," encapsulates the notion that fiction has the unique ability to uncover hidden truths that may be misunderstood or even obscured by reality. In a straightforward interpretation, this quote suggests that the stories we create in fiction offer a deeper understanding of human nature, societal dynamics, and the complexities of life. Fiction has the power to shine a light on truths often overshadowed or ignored in the hustle and bustle of everyday life. It allows us to explore different perspectives, question assumptions, and delve into the depths of human experience. Through narrative and imagination, fiction becomes a vehicle through which reality's intricacies can be unraveled and its truths made visible.
A view is information structured in a way to inform an organism of the state of the environment relative to the state of its body. A view is always relative and the distinction between subjectivity and objectivity lies in trying to separate the body from the environment - an impossible feat. — Harry Hindu
Calling them "realities" would be a misuse of words. They are fictional stories, and I don't see any relevance between the words, "fiction" and "reality". — Harry Hindu
If fiction and reality are to be linked, it must be in terms not of opposition but of communication, for the one is not the mere opposite of the other - fiction is a means of telling us something about reality.
Going from "The oak tree is shedding its leaves" to "I think the oak tree is shedding its leaves" is going from thinking in the visual of an oak tree shedding its leaves to thinking in the auditory experience of hearing the words (you talking to yourself) "I think the oak tree is shedding its leaves". — Harry Hindu
We only need language to relay information, not to create reality. Only language that relays relevant information is useful, else it's the ramblings of a madman or philosophy gone wild. — Harry Hindu
I often wonder, what makes a person interested in philosophy? — Rob J Kennedy
What our present goal is determines what we try to point to with language. — Harry Hindu
Language use is not a requirement for thinking. — Harry Hindu
I am not quite sure what you mean by a metaphysical problem. I asked you about it already, but didn't get replies on that point. What is a metaphysical problem, and why is it a metaphysical problem? — Corvus
p and I think p — J
When I look out the window and say to myself, ‛That oak tree is shedding its leaves,’ I am not aware of also, and simultaneously, thinking anything along the lines of ‛I think that the oak tree is shedding its leaves.’
There doesn't seem to be difference between saying,
1) The oak tree is standing there. and
2) You think that the oak tree is standing there.
You would only say 2), when you are asked why you said 1). — Corvus
When I look out the window and say to myself, ‛That oak tree is shedding its leaves,’ I am not aware of also, and simultaneously, thinking anything along the lines of ‛I think that the oak tree is shedding its leaves.’ — J
When I think, I am thinking in either sentences or images...But if I try to think about my thoughts, I don't have any content but the thought is my object of thought. Because the contents of the thought is either shielded by the thought, or is empty. — Corvus
I don't think you can think about your thinking. — Corvus
It hinges on the ambiguity of the word "thought". We commonly use the word to mean two distinct things: a mental event occurring at a particular place and time, and the content or import of said event ("proposition," in Fregean terms). — J
However, when you say "I think Paris is crowded," you can be saying either of two things. — J
Can you say why this next level of reflexivity is needed to make the situation clear? — J
If language is expression of thought, then every statement and proposition you make must be based on "I think" even if you didn't say it out loud. — Corvus
Isn't it a tautology? When you say P, it already implies you think P. — Corvus
So with these recent posts, we’re going a bit deeper into the question of “I think p” and its relation to p. — J
p and I think p. — J
Am I able to think of these two entirely unrelated things at the same time? I would think so — Patterner
Am I thinking about leaves falling from the tree and the height of the Empire State Building when I say, 'The leaves are falling from the tree, and, when you include the antenna, the Empire State Building is 1,454 feet (443.2 m) tall"? — Patterner
And you pointed out that it is (what might be called?) a compound lower level thought. — Patterner
So then is the question "Can you think A and B at the same time?" — Patterner
Do the quotes around "I" mean that there is literally no self without thoughts, or only that the "I" of philosophy, so to speak -- the self-conscious cogito -- is constructed from our thoughts? — J
Whereas "the oak tree is shedding its leaves" is a combination of two lower level thoughts. — Patterner
Is it possible to think ‛I think that the oak tree is shedding its leaves.’ without thinking ‛The oak tree is shedding its leaves.’? The words are actually in the sentence, after all. The higher level thought cannot exist without the lower level thought. — Patterner
So then is the question "Can you think A and B at the same time?" rather than "Can you be A and B at the same time?"? — Patterner
I can think the lower level thought without the higher. — Patterner
Or is there another response that seems better? — J
Anyhow, most of the phenomenology I am familiar with attempts to rebut Kant, not support him. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Isn't that the essence of deductive logic, where premises necessitate a conclusion? Isn't this arguably a form of "mental causation" ? — Pantagruel
However this isn't the place to address that as we are veering OT for this thread — Pantagruel
The enactivists I am aware of tend to be harsh critics of Kantian representationalism. It gets offered up as a way to avoid Kant's problems, not a way to recreate them. The article you're citing mentions phenomenology as a means of dissolving the very Kantian dualism you are claiming this approach represents. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Literally, phenomenology is the study of “phenomena”: appearances of things, or things as they appear in our experience, or the ways we experience things, thus the meanings things have in our experience..................... When Descartes, Hume, and Kant characterized states of perception, thought, and imagination, they were practising phenomenology.
Actually that is exactly what embodied-embedded cognition implies, represents a definition of knowledge as much as anything. — Pantagruel
Embodied cognition is the idea that the body or the body’s interactions with the environment constitute or contribute to cognition (SEP - Embodied Cognition)
Another source of inspiration for embodied cognition is the phenomenological tradition. (SEP - Embodied Cognition)
Literally, phenomenology is the study of “phenomena”: appearances of things, or things as they appear in our experience, or the ways we experience things, thus the meanings things have in our experience. (SEP - Phenomenology)
He is the metaphysical grandfather of the idea of the embodied mind. — Pantagruel
True. Except that he relentlessly fuses these: — Pantagruel
Again, when I speak of a sensation, imagination, thought, or the like, I sometimes mean an
object sensated, sometimes the act, habit or faculty of sensating it, and so on.
I don't really subscribe to this idea of the sublime (awe and wonder?).........................The experince is not transcendental. It's a personal reaction. — Tom Storm
For 1st C AD Longinus, the sublime is an adjective that describes great, elevated, or lofty thought or language, particularly in the context of rhetoric.
In an early work (of 1764), Immanuel Kant made an attempt to record his thoughts on the observing subject's mental state in Observations on the Feeling of the Beautiful and Sublime. He held that the sublime was of three kinds: the noble, the splendid, and the terrifying.
For Schopenhauer, the feeling of the sublime, however, is when the object does not invite such contemplation but instead is an overpowering or vast malignant object of great magnitude, one that could destroy the observer.
The long quote I made from Collingwood is its own best evidence and equates with my claims. — Pantagruel
Mathematics is thus the one and only a priori science. It has nothing to do with space or time or quantity, which are elements of concrete experience ; it is simply the theory of order, where order means classificatory order, structure in its most abstract possible form.
Obviously there is not a unique set of two "proto-digmatic" entities.........................On the other hand, any pair of things can exist in a state of "two-ness" given the appropriate abstraction. — Pantagruel
each member being simply another instance of the universal..............This indeterminate multiplicity is the mathematical infinite (RG Collingwood). — Pantagruel
Without 1, 2 could not exist, though the reverse doesn’t hold. Since it is because of the existence of 1, or one thing, that there can be 2, or two things, then the former can be said to be the cause of the latter. — Pretty
Wouldn’t gravity be a perfect example of one? — Pretty
In physics, gravity is a fundamental interaction primarily observed as mutual attraction between all things that have mass.
Some philosophers are wary of admitting relations because they are difficult to locate. Glasgow is west of Edinburgh. This tells us something about the locations of these two cities. But where is the relation that holds between them in virtue of which Glasgow is west of Edinburgh? The relation can’t be in one city at the expense of the other, nor in each of them taken separately, since then we lose sight of the fact that the relation holds between them (McTaggart 1920: §80). Rather the relation must somehow share the divided locations of Glasgow and Edinburgh without itself being divided.
Aristotle speaks of a certain priority in which two things exist contemporaneous to each other yet still have a causal-effective relationship — such as the existence of a thing and an affirmation of that thing. — Pretty
