A free and fair election must have a well informed electorate.

Obama put Elizabeth Warren in charge of looking into the financial sector responsibility for the '08 crash.

Nothing was done with the information.

The people did not see it. They ought.

I can just see the smirk on Trump's face...

Clueless Joe.

I was Obama's vice president...

Big fucking deal.

Anyone remember plagiarism Joe?

Everyone will.

Clueless Joe...

Let the American people know about all the relevant facts... then let them decide.

Knowing the facts requires Sanders/Warren on the national stage for the sole purpose of show and tell. They both know what they are talking about.

A free and fair election must include a well-informed electorate.

Trump loses at least twenty percent of his core working class supporters to Bernie Sanders...

Right off the top.

The impediment to Sanders is all about whether or not those with the power to let the American people get to know Bernie Sanders by virtue of listening to him... do so.

Not doing so is a tremendous public disservice.

They win, and they do so by telling the inconvenient truth to the American people.

In doing so, they will have created a more well informed electorate.

Sanders/Warren...

Let the American people hear them and their explanation of what's wrong in America...

Bernie runs as an independent and during the national debates clearly makes the case regarding how both parties have caused everyday average Americans harm by virtue of acting upon the best interest of corporations when their interests conflicted with the average everyday American's.
— creativesoul
He can certainly do that, and it will guarantee Trump another 4 years. — Relativist

Another popular belief. Given third party showings in the past, if all else is equal, your concerns would be warranted. Who could forget Ross Perot?

They are not warranted, for...

All else is not equal.

I don't care to debate who's the best person for the Presidency.

What an odd thing to say given the context...

:brow:

What are you doing here then?

I agree my list is irrelevant to your choice of whom to vote for. — Relativist

There still seems to be some sort of comprehension problem(s) on your part. Do you not understand what I'm saying?

Try this...

Your list is irrelevant to what needs discussed. Bernie is all about what needs to be discussed. You asked what was missing from your list of personal concerns.

I answered... all the important stuff.

Care to address what I actually wrote? I mean, I know your personal straw targets are easy kills, but come on man...

"The choice" presupposes knowing about the available choices.

What you seem to have signficant difficulty getting through your thick skull is that enough people will choose Bernie, when and if enough people are permitted hear him speak about the last fifty years.

The electability problem is that that is not being allowed to happen!

Relativist: If Bernie does that, who will this convince to vote for him?

Anyone and everyone who wants to know what has actually been going on in the American government for the last fifty years that has caused the quality of everyday average American lives to plummet the way that it has.
— creativesoul

In other words...Bernie supporters.... — Relativist

If anyone and everyone who wants to know what the fuck happened to American opportunity for the average everyday American counts as a Bernie supporter.

:meh:

You're giving a list of the things Bernie supporters love about Bernie. — Relativist

Bullshit!

You offered a very long list of fucking irrelevency , and then you had the audacity to ask what you had missed.

I fucking answered by talking about what's relevant. How about this...

Bernie runs as an independent and during the national debates clearly makes the case regarding how both parties have caused everyday average Americans harm by virtue of acting upon the best interest of corporations when their interests conflicted with the average everyday American's.


When faced with the choice between what's best for corporations and what's best for American citizens, they chose to err on the side of the corporations.

To be honest, there's little to no difference between the two parties when it concerns policies that have been implemented that resulted in disaster for an unacceptably overwhelming number of American families.

Bernie was right at the time.

It would also go a long way in showing Americans exactly why he has been railroaded. For who he is ans what he stands for. He stands poised with enough knowledge ready at hand to accurately inform the American people of the harm caused to them by both parties. He'll do so in clear understandable terms. They will then begin to really understand what the fuck has happened such that there are very few opportunities for having good healthcare, good benefits, good paying jobs, and thus the chance at a comfortable good life.

Imagine that.

Both parties.

Enough people would come to know what they ought to have long since already known, just by watching the conversation happen in real time.

Bernie Sanders needs to clearly enumerate and demarcate the fact that Biden and Trump have both played key roles, in different circumstances mind you - but key roles nonetheless - in causing unacceptable, unnecessary, and quantifiable harm to average everyday Americans.
— creativesoul
If Bernie does that, who will this convince to vote for him? — Relativist

Anyone and everyone who wants to know what has actually been going on in the American government for the last fifty years that has caused the quality of everyday average American lives to plummet the way that it has.

Do you want someone like Trump who has no concern whatsoever beyond his own image and wealth? Do you want someone like Biden who does not have a clue how to fix all the problems facing the people he has convinced to vote for him? Not a clue.

Clueless Joe.

Neither of them have a clue, or if they do, they keep it a secret. They certainly do not put it into words, and offer real solutions...

Bernie could clear the air... if there were enough people watching all at the same time and he was allowed to speak about the aforementioned problems.

Common misconceptions are what's stopping Bernie Sanders and his message from being understood for what it is...

Six huge conglomerates own the media... all of it. All of them would have lower profit margins if Bernie is elected. None of them want him elected.

They do not care which person gets elected, as long as they continue acting in the best interest of huge multinational corporations as both sides of the American political aisle have been doing for fifty years.

The concerted attack against Bernie is nothing but rhetorical drivel and propaganda. A spread of mis and disinformation. A fraud being perpetuated against the American people.

3) Sanders policies will scare Republicans, and Republican-leaning independents - increasing their turnout (I'm not criticizing the policies, just noting that this backlash should be expected); — Relativist

Oh, Jesus fucking Christ...

So, your argument is that because doing the right things will scare too many Republicans who do not want to do the right things, that we ought not do the right things...

WTF???

Let me know if I left anything out. — Relativist

Well, since you asked...

You left out all of the most important stuff. Which candidate actually has a good grasp upon the root problems(actual legislation over the last fifty or so years) that have caused so so many poor Americans to become disillusioned with government altogether?

Not Trump. Not Biden.

Bernie.

Which candidate was on the right side of history in the moment?

Not Trump. Not biden.

Bernie.

Which candidate acknowledges these problems and is willing to do everything it takes to get them corrected... even if it is a long road?

Not Trump. Not Biden.

Bernie.

Which candidate can explain these problems and their solutions to everyday Americans in clear and understandable terms?

Not Trump. Not Biden.

Bernie.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

why have Democrats (so far) voted for the candidate with dementia rather than the one who has neither dementia nor craziness? — Relativist

Common misconceptions.

Bernie Sanders needs to clearly enumerate and demarcate the fact that Biden and Trump have both played key roles, in different circumstances mind you - but key roles nonetheless - in causing unacceptable, unnecessary, and quantifiable harm to average everyday Americans.

For different reasons, to different ends, both are guilty of having done so. Where was/is Bernie on those matters?

Obama did what he did to help some poor people be able to have the medical treatments and preventative care that every American ought be entitled to, simply by virtue of being an American. He did what he could. I'm being more than fair here.

He also got thrown into a pre-fueled fire and as a result bailed out the banks so that the economy did not finish collapsing in on itself, as a direct result of far too much trust being placed into something that is just not trustworthy, reliable, and/or strong enough to be used as a pillar...

Obviously.

Good pillars... effective pillars... do not collapse in on themselves by virtue of their own doing.

Funny enough, those who weakened the pillars knowingly did not feel the weight of the economic collapse. I did not have negative effects/affects upon them. To quite the contrary, the collapse worked directly to their own financial benefit.

They profited directly from the swathe of victims directly effected/affected by a public disservice. This happened during the initial implementation of certain financial instruments, by mortgage brokers, real estate agents and underwriter by making people feel safe about a loan that they could not afford according to the actual terms in the agreement.

Making someone feel safe about a loan that they cannot afford as it is written is a tremendous disservice to that person and anyone else who feels the aftermath. Those in charge of that part of the service knew that this was the case.

So, brokers sold them to others who then gathered them all under one umbrella... each cleverly disguised as safe low risk investments, and they then sold them to yet even more unsuspecting consumers... again. This time the fraud took the form of a low risk safe means to invest for retirement.

Here again, the public disservice providers profited immediately.

Hot potato with some who quite simply could not feel the heat.

Some of those reaping huge financial rewards from the crash of '08 also weakened the economic pillars of American society by design. Others played a role in effectively implementing the design. Some knew. Others may not have. None of them personally felt the weight of the collapse that they themselves played a key role in causing. None of them could be held legally responsible.

Public disservice does not even begin to appropriately describe this situation.

Look at the public record of their opinions on important matters... the actions that resulted in disaster for working class Americans, without good enough reason for doing so. These are the sorts of considerations that will show a proven track record of being on the right side of history... or not.

Bernie has two electibility problems: — Relativist

Bernie has one electability problem...

Enough people are saying the same things and in doing so are perpetuating a fraud. Knowingly or unknowingly... it doesn't matter. Netiher is acceptable. Both are reprehensible.

What's stopping Bernie?

Common misconceptions.

A free and fair election must have a well informed electorate.

148 delegates behind...

There is no mind without an external world. All mind is thought and belief. All thought and belief consists of meaningful correlations drawn between different things. Thought and belief are themselves existentially dependent upon a plurality of things and a creature capable of drawing a correlation, association, and/or otherwise 'connecting' the aforementioned things.

The mind bridges the external and the internal 'worlds', if one chooses to use such language.

No one makes a mistake on purpose. We all do what we think we ought at that particular time for our own particular reasons.

Free will is all about whether or not one could have chosen otherwise... all else being equal.

Nope.

Company bybacks... company sell offs...

Disservices.

People talking about the economy as though it is a reliable indicator for the quality of your average American Joe's life and/or livelihood. It's not.

Disservices.

Actors that intentionally mislead the public perception regarding the value and/or scarcity of a share often do so with the sole aim of creating popular public belief that the (company)stock itself is more valuable than it is...

'Artificial demand'.

Another public disservice. The whole economy thing is completely beside the point I'm now making, well aside from the economy not being a reliable indicator for the overall quality of American lives.

American people ought be able to put their natural talents and skills to good use by virtue of helping in some small way to provide a public service to the community at large while simultaneously earning a decent living. There are necessary tasks to perform which could utilize a wide swathe of different talents and skill sets.

We create the socioeconomic landscape, and there is no excuse for not providing one that realizes the best outcomes for the overwhelming majority of Americans.

None.

There is no excuse for allowing anyone to wield the sort of power over American citizens that is being wielded by those who have no intent or goal of doing what's best for everyday American citizens.

None.

Power over people is acquired in only one of two ways. It's either usurped or granted by consent. If the consent was manufactured by an insincere speaker, then it much better qualifies as usurpation.

American people have had their own power to cast a well informed vote taken from them by many people across the board on so many different levels for a very very long time. Each and every media outlet that has secured the rights to have public discourse about public elections ought have the solemn responsibility of accurately reporting what's happened and/or is happening.

The stark reality is that they all have a restricted freedom to discuss daily events using a particular narrative flavor. Some of them do not even write their own script. Others are like lemmings.

Another public disservice.

Melissa Harris Perry refused to be a mouthpiece. She paid for her freedom of speech with her very own financial livelihood.

What a shithole of a society. — StreetlightX

Well, some things definitely need to change. Doesn't look like enough American people know what that looks like.

:sad:

I hope they prove me wrong. It would be quite a pleasant surprise.

There was once a day that honest hard-working people who take pride in themselves and their work had plenty of opportunity to shine.

There are communities of people who could, would, and ought be able to come together as a team in order to take steps that increase the overall wellbeing of the nation.

Money has left worker hands and found it's way to shareholders'.

Hard to shine at the five and dime when the five and dime is a place that very few - if any - would be proud to work. If the five and dime shared the profits in real terms, then one would be stoked to secure a position there, and rightfully so.

There was once a day when a lineage of hard working dedicated people could build comfortable lives without needing to depend upon financial 'services' that are sold to the public couched in terms of good financial decision making - by those who know better - and all of that for quite a hefty service charge to boot.

That is a public disservice in my book.

There was once a day that one could save what they earned, and it would be enough. Those days are long gone by, if one is poor and trusts all those who are supposed to be providing a public service.

So, we have cultivated a nation where it makes sense to say of the poor that they ought not have kids?

I think it is much better put that in this nation one ought not have to choose between having a loving family and making a living.

I don't think even Biden can stop the Biden juggernaut now. And he's winning fair and square, so no complaints. It's bizarre considering he's barely awake most of the time. But there you go. — Baden

It's still too early to call. Not even half of the delegates have been awarded, even after tonight. The media is pushing the snowball along as fast as they can possibly run. No surprise really, given the financial loyalties.

However, if Biden does win the nomination, the only way he attracts Sanders' supporters is nominating him for vp, but he won't do it. Biden will not rock the financial sectors' boat, nor will he rock the corporate one, nor will he rock the pharmaceutical one. Par for the course of the last fifty or so years, regardless of the party.

Meh...

The poorest and most unfortunate citizens/people are fucked yet once again. Four more years. And they evidently believe that Biden is better for them that Sanders. Unbelievable ignorance of the relevant facts...

Many thought Obama acted on their behalf too. Sanders needs to come out swinging and showing these people that they've been misled... sorely misled. Not sure if he would, or if all the evidence proving that would change their minds even if it was presented to them in a clear and concise way...

:yikes:

Sorry, but we do use the definition and the word "free market" / "free market system" to describe a present system. — ssu

And people use "Communist" to describe Sanders. Does not make it either true, nor sensible. Makes it propaganda.

Good employers do not have nor need unions. Bad ones do. That's the whole point of them. They emerged for very good reason, and those reasons are now actual again.

Adam Smith being against mercantilism and the last vestiges of feudalism in his country — ssu

Against patents as well... but no one strictly adheres to Smith. He's more of an imaginary God for those who peddle capitalism. The founding fathers were against capitalists. They've no loyalty to country or countryman. That's proven true.

Have you seen American Factory? — ssu

I personally know people who worked at Delphi. That was the GM plant that closed in Dayton Oh. Yes, I've seen the show, and I've also been aware of the differences between work cultures for much longer than that.

What's the point of the mention?

...there's a fine line between Biden's and Sanders' proposals. — ssu

I don't think so. Biden's aren't Biden's. Bernie's are Bernie's.

Things aren't a juxtaposition between free market capitalism and non-capitalist socialism, but this simplistic position is how things are portrayed. — ssu

Agreed.

Most Americans are perfectly happy with their health care. — fishfry

Hah!

:roll:

Illusions are always of something that they are not.