Christianity seems to not only expect but also necessitate evil even if it takes the shape of Islamic terrorists (worshippers of the same God) — TheMadFool

Christianity is frequently evil in it's responses to any religion not it's own, and any people that decide to stand against it.

There is truth in the cliche: There is no light without darkness, no darkness without light. Life has meaning because we die. Without a contrast...things seem rather drab.

alcoholics for a liver. — James Riley

No. The alcoholics get a great deal of the blood transfusions however, and ICU time. We treat what comes in, when it comes in. We don't sit at the door in judgement and decide who is worthy of saving or not. That would effectively close the hospital doors to everyone, because it isn't that hard to find fault in decisions that lead to poor health outcomes, therefore, everyone has contributed to their health situation, and so should get no treatment for it. I guess I will hang a closed sign at the hospital doors, power down the Emergency sign and go home eh!

Don't worry, the coffee is on, the machines are ready to go, and we have your back. I couldn't care less about your vaccination status; not before the emergency, during or after. Have a great night.

Millions have died. Millions more have long hauler problems — James Riley

Standard response to living. Here Coronavirus has result in 30000 deaths, over 20 months. However, a regular month has 24000 deaths, so really, an increase of 6.25% from baseline. Hardly worth the pandemic response.

If this sales pitch were applied at a mechanics shop, no one would go back, everyone would want a refund, and the shop would be out of business in a very short while.

Mechanic: Your car is broken. I will fix it for $50

Customer: It seems ok to me. see? it runs fine.

Mechanic: No, it's broken, I hear a noise. $50 to fix it.

Customer: Well, you are the expert. Here is $50.

Mechanic: Thanks (looks under hood, wiggles something, closes hood) All better.

Customer: I can't hear any difference.

Mechanic: That's because it's better.

Customer: So I can leave now?

Mechanic: No. I hear a different noise. $50 to fix it. Then you can go about your day.

Customer: What? Fine. Here's another $50.

Mechanic : Thanks (repeats initial process)

Customer: So now I can leave right?

Mechanic: No. There is another different noise. $75 to fix it.

This can go on forever.

How many of us would expect the customer to stay there and keep forking out money? And how many would expect passers by to weigh in on the situation and call the customer names when they have had enough of the mechanic shop and want to leave?

So why is it different when It's public health that says "No, you can't leave yet. Now you need a booster..."

"your own medicine." — James Riley

Nah, not my medicine. Just all my training and experience up to April 2020. After that the expectation shifted from "provide patient care and be a patient advocate" to "promote the public health message". We can be fired and lose our license to practice if we are caught "spreading anti-vaccine information" or going against the public health mandate. I am not Anti-vaccine, I am for informed consent and a patient's right to decide on their course treatment. The math does not add up, I can find peer reviewed articles supporting my position, but if I provide accurate, up to date information to my patients, I can, in theory, lose my job because that could be considered to be working against the public health mandate. Nurses and Doctors are leaving the field, not because they dislike the work, but because we are no longer allowed to practice with any autonomy, I must be my company's mouth piece now. Perhaps I am more comfortable being self employed, poor, and ethically uncompromised than wealthy and pushing a line that I don't believe upon my patients.

one's feeling of obligation to contribute is based on one's feeling of attachment and subsequent responsibility to society. If one does not feel an attachment, there would be no motivation to contribute. Intelligence, in itself, does not factor in the equation. The value and efficacy of one's contribution would be affected by intelligence.

Like on a vent, in a hospital bed — James Riley

You work in an ICU, or are you just running the regular rhetoric? Actual healthcare provider on your end, or armchair theorist?

I am thinking armchair theorist.

Good job, virus man — James Riley

I am not responsible for this. I would have made something far more lethal. If you are going to do something, do it right eh!

Depends on who you consider the enemy. On this side, that is exactly who you are supporting.

The sad part is that it appears the majority are still buying into the bullshit speeches. Just stunning.

The deaths are on the hands of those who knew they didn't know better — James Riley

Umm, No. The deaths are on life. end of story. Everyone currently breathing is going to stop; that is non-negotiable, no matter who does what, when, or how loud they cry about it, everyone stops breathing, like it or not. Vaccines won't stop it, nor masks, nor fines, nor anything else any government does, ever.

How we live has value, how long we live is important to the time keepers. So really, the question isn't how long can you live, rather, how would you like to die? Because that is coming anyway, might as well come to terms with it.

Sure, other than being wrong, you are spot on. Well done.

Notice the lack of compliance with all the restrictions, vaccines, masks, etc. It's no wonder Covid is still roaming around eh. — James Riley

That's right, blame something other than the virus. Actual science and vectors and viral spread can eat it; the powers that be yelled out the wrong answer first, louder, and more often than any other response based on logic, so the media believes them. Let's not let minor details like accuracy interfere with a good panic. Where is the fun in that? We have spent so much investing in this fear response, we can't let it go now, it would be wasted effort.

Quick question: if the vaccines actually work why the fuck am I still wearing a mask and why does anyone that has been vaccinated give two shits about Covid? Seriously, the sales pitch doesn't hold up.

Even the mask mandates and vaccine passports are left to the tax-payer to enforce at their own expense. — NOS4A2

Notice how despite all the restrictions, vaccines, masks, etc Covid is still roaming around eh. As it always was going to. The propaganda lines remain the same "about to reach the turning point" "once the next (whatever) is reached, things will turn around", etc. Always something else and with exactly the same result: a whole lot of not much.

As for the "think about how bad it could have been..." crap, sure. Think about how much better it would have been if we had not had all these panic induced restrictions applied. Minimal job loss, minimal economic downturn, maintained mental health, decreased addiction, decreased suicides...Yep all that certainly would have been terrible. Thank God the governments saved everyone from that. And as a bonus, we all get celebratory needles! Good times for everyone.

Depends on your definitions. But no, this is not generally considered the middle of nowhere.

this premise of greater effort =/= greater gain is kinda.. I dunno man without getting into too grizzly detail, simply put it didn't sit well with folks. — Outlander

Not sure what sits poorly about it really. When I was self employed I worked hard. My customers were happy to pay the bill, even when it was for something that they were capable of doing but just didn't want to do. I made good money. I knew other self-employed guys that did not want to do what I did, they chose the easy work and they made less money. They did not gripe about it, as they did not want the jobs I took. There was also less competition as I wasn't bidding against them nor they against me. Customers were happy as well as the contractors. The employees that did not want to work at the level required for my company worked for the other guys'. Again, everyone wins.

Perhaps you could explain the problem to me.

Why not step your game and remove workers from the system? Why go through attrition by not making more workers (antinatalism) when one could simple remove (murder) already existing workers? Would that not in truth save these poor unfortunates from further toil and suffering. even more so because they have been deluded into believing they are happy with their toil, those poor unfortunate bastards! Poison the water as rebellion!

Again, not seeing the value of Antinatalism. Seems on par with murder for the betterment of humanity. Maybe a case can be made for it, but really, it's a tough sell eh.

the solution to overrun healthcare systems are better healthcare systems — NOS4A2

Very much so. Currently my province has, roughly, 4.5 million residents. We also have, at normal operating levels 173 ICU beds. So one bed for every 26,011 people. I have worked different areas that have had 1 ICU bed for every 6000 people. Not surprisingly, the area with 1:6000 has less concerns about overwhelming the system. I find it terrible that the general population of my province is faced with such restrictions and demands by the government because that same government has refused to put in a robust system. The healthcare system here was always inadequate, logically, if a bus accident can result in a code orange (hospital overwhelmed, divert to neighbouring hospitals), then any viral outbreak will do the same. Norovirus and C-diff shut down multiple units annually, demonstrating the following: Our universal precautions don't work for shit (as staff are spreading it from patient to patient, and giving it to themselves, usually 25% are home with whatever is running amok), our isolation procedures suck, and most units are too tightly packed so it is very easy for bugs to spread.

Really, if the system is garbage from the outset, why are we working so hard to save it? Rebuild the damned thing properly and stop patching garbage.

become more self-sufficient — I like sushi

Becoming more self sufficient is totally doable. Completely self sufficient is next to impossible. By example: I have built an off grid cabin. Solar panel electricity production, battery storage. Wood stove for heat and cooking. I have come home, at -35 Celsius in howling snow storm when the power grid has been off for hours all over the territory, to find my wife and son watching a dvd, the cabin warm and cozy, with a hot stew on the stove and fresh bread nearly done. They were unaware that the storm had knocked out power to 35,000 people. That is one level of self-sufficient, but I am unable to make the solar panels, or storage batteries. While I could weld the stove together, I cannot make the plate steel needed. I can make bio-diesel to run my truck, but I cannot make the tires. That was the point I was trying to make.

Next year I am taking my house off grid. Total solar array, battery storage. I have installed the new electrical wiring and reduced the electrical demands already. My old electric stove is gone, a new propane one is now in the kitchen. I can remove the electric hot water tank and install a propane one next year, further reducing my electrical demands. I will also be replacing one of my internal combustion vehicles with a 100% electric vehicle (yes, the solar array can handle the charging of the Electric Vehicle as well). I can't make propane, and while I could make and manage methane, chances are I will stay with propane (unless everything really collapses and propane is no longer available). So I am doing what I can to become more self-sufficient and reduce my monetary needs. It takes careful consideration, skill, and money (less the more skill and thought go into the projects). I have a well, so don't need city water. We have a garden, and 16 chickens, and a wood stove. However, I will never be as self-sufficient as I would like. Could I not use a powered vehicle and take a pedal bike to work? Sure, but since it's 34 km one way, I won't. Also it's winter 4 months a year, so that won't work then either.

I absolutely support the idea of more self-sufficiency, and thoughtful, deliberate lives. Usually that involves more work, not less, and as one is working for themselves, the work is not paid in the traditional way.

I haven't known many people who are willing to work hard to get what they want; not physically and not mentally. I have known a great many that want to win the lottery, would like a giant inheritance, etc. but work for it? Damned few. I would suggest that the system we are in is less flawed than we like to think. The players are flawed perhaps more than the system.

becoming completely self-sufficient. — I like sushi

Nice idea, but not actually possible, unless one operates as a parasite. It takes a little flexibility of the term "self-sufficient", but if one considers the ability to sponge off the work and assets of others as self sufficient, then it is possible to be so. Otherwise, nope. Minimally reliant is the best one can hope for.

I am not sure why one would protest "work". I understand the concept of not enjoying one's work, however the idea of not being required to work in some form seems poorly considered. No system is flawless, however antinatalism seems to be an utterly bankrupt concept, although perhaps I misunderstand how you consider it applicable in this circumstance.

I do not dislike work per se, there are other things I would rather be doing however. Therefore, moving forward from that point, I have reduced my required income level to allow for a single income household, and am working to further reduce my required income so that I am able to move to a 32 hour work week. This allows me to do things that I want to do with my wife while maintaining the lifestyle we enjoy. I can always pick up a few extra shifts if I want to, but it is very nice to not need to.

Not me yet, but one day, maybe. The option seems pretty cool though.

No idea. Again, depends on what experience you would be looking for, although in theory...why not? you would be the sea everything else swims in, or the cosmos, or whatever.

You chose the return body during the in between state. Live, experience, die. Process, chose the next form and time, etc, begin the next round, repeat. We exist independently of the body already (we are usually unaware of this until the body begins to dramatically fail), the body is a vessel in which we temporarily reside. Like driving the car around to see the world, you are in the car but not of the car. When it breaks you find another means of travel and carry on. Perhaps a truck, after realizing the limitations of a low to the ground sports car, to see off road areas.

A life like rock seems hard. — Cartuna

He he he. well played. I don't know, rocks don't talk to me. It could be very relaxing, but then, I am unaware of the demands on a rock, so maybe not.

You are not in it when you chose. You chose prior to it's creation. Kind of like custom ordering a car, only with more say as to how long it lasts.

"I want to drive a Toyota Tacoma,V6 engine, 4 door, 4 wheel drive, TRD with skid plates, a manual transmission, leather seats, and in metallic forest green" And the dealer, if they are worth shopping at, orders one.

The body you are in is the same kind of thing, not at a dealership of course, but the process is comparable. "Hispanic male, in excellent health until 45, then a long fight with some disease, then recovery and die in my sleep at 87". Then you are born into that frame and begin your journey. The form you choose is dependent on the experience you are seeking. Maybe you need to be a badger the next time around. Or you need a break, to process a lot of information (you had been in Germany over WWII), so you come back as a rock for a few thousand years.

An excellent demonstration of not understanding, well played.

You have very nicely demonstrated someone at a different point of understanding along the path. Thank you

Why am I? Why am I conscious and in this body specifically? Why aren't I anybody else? — Monkee

You are, because you chose to be. You are conscious because your mind, and that which you consider to be you, needs you to be in order for you to exist as you understand you. You are in this specific body because you chose to be.

Do different people have different levels of consciousness? — Monkee

Yes. People are at different levels of progression, therefore over-arching levels of consciousness.

Am I more/less conscious then another? — Monkee

Yes. You are at your level of development, I am at mine, and everyone else is where they are. No two are exactly the same as we are all at different points along the same path.

If everybody else is conscious, are we all just one monistic creation? — Monkee

We are all differentiations of the same monistic base; everything is one, differentiated.

What is consciousness?! — Monkee

Consciousness is the occupying force within the mind, created by the soul and powered by spirit. Consciousness allows you to experience your life fully and interact with everything around you while you travel on the path.

Nice eh!

I suggest that a democracy, as I understand it (voters, elected officials that represent said voters, etc) will always result in the lowest denominator style government. Think political and social entropy.
I look around at the people I work with, arguably educated and literate, and listen to their spoken values and am appalled at the profound absence of thought processes and shallow values being yammered about. These are the educated voters, Bachelors and Masters degrees all around, and very little substance or critical thought to be found anywhere. In a majority rules situation, I would have to listen to what these clowns want, because there are more of them than there are of me. Absolute nightmare.

Perhaps a democracy wherein the requirement to vote, or hold office, is an IQ above 130. That should remove a substantial amount of dead weight. Then at least I could say that my representative might be corrupt and a asshole, but not an idiot. That would be a good place to start.

thought, soul, spirit, consciousness, as mere functions of the mind, — god must be atheist

I suggest the reverse is more accurate.

The mind is the manifestation of spirit through soul into consciousness and thereby becomes a mind. Without spirit there is no reason for the soul, without soul, no reason for consciousness, without consciousness the mind is an empty vessel. I think, therefore I have a mind, and consciousness, ergo a soul, all created through spirit.

I also dislike short forms of words, and abbreviations. They seem like a good way to confuse an issue further.

Interesting, as Aristotle form/substance also filters down to prime matter; an undifferentiated potential matter capable of taking on any and all forms, without any defined characteristics of it's own. So an undifferentiated base, becoming everything.

It's just
not practical for a society though. — Olivier5

I had not realized the discussion had "practical for society" as one of it's fundamental tenets. Hard to capture a universal truth theory that also caters to the whims of a human creation. I will move forward from my position and will file "society" under irrelevant with respect to it's place in my theory.

To get back to the OP, what is your stance exactly? I get that you are not supportive of mine, but I cannot recall your position, unless it is simply one of opposition.

I saw the translated poster at the theatre, no lie. And yep my French is likely grammatically incorrect. No worries there.

Yours must be a very boring world, where everything is in the same shade of grey. — Olivier5

If that is how you chose to see it. Sad for you, but there it is. Clearly you need to be externally validated as special in order to maintain your world view, which seems limiting, and bankrupt, but that is where you are at apparently. I do not need that level of external validation. I matter to me because I want to, and everything that matters to me does so at my will. These items have value because I have assigned them value, if I were removed from the equation, and no one were to assign them value in my place, they would have no value above anything else. There is no lesser being, there is no higher being, and nothing worthless. I find it a very liberating perspective.

No. I do not know Latin. I do know language suffers through translation and interpretation.

Most entertaining example I can think of: The movie title "The Matrix", Keanu Reeves, Lawrence Fishburne, etc. The French poster for that film had the film as "Les Jeunes qui porte des lunettes de Soleil." Which means "young people that wear sunglasses". Hardly an accurate translation, although accurate in itself, as most of the film involves younger people wearing sunglasses.

WTF is a Christian translation of Latin? — Olivier5

Latin translated to support Christian perspectives. Seriously, how is this a question? ALL translations are limited, and directed, by the lens of the translator.

Everything is made up of energy. Form is different, qualities are different, etc. But cut through all of the aesthetics...just energy. Also, we are limited in our testing devices to move deeper into proving this, both from a science and observational perspective. Which is unfortunate, but allows for potentially fun debates.

then nothing is of any particular value.. — Olivier5

...any more than anything else. Yes, that is correct. If one cannot determine an appropriate course of action for one's life and motivations, simply because they have lost perceived value, or "specialness", the flaw is within them, perhaps they should determine why they need to feel so special in order to have value. Regardless, it is not a flaw of the underlying system, the flaw is perception based.

Some of us are working on it, but publishing anything too early is career suicide. Still, you are considering things through quantum mechanics, as am I, as are others. Eventually one of us will be able to move with a substaniated theory.