Hence it's no wonder that historically it has been the intellectuals that have promoted and believed in authoritarianism (communism, fascism etc), because they haven't seen the negative side of it in their lives. — ssu

And they see that authority protecting their niche in the system.

Morality is not corrupted by intellectualism; morality (such as it is) is mostly or else always corrupted by greed, lust, hedonistic desires and a hunger for power. — god must be atheist

Is not greed, lust, hedonistic desires and hunger for power intellectual?

I would bet that well over 90% of democrats in the U.S. if interviewed (and maybe half the Republicans) would answer in the affirmative if asked whether it would be a good thing for all politicians to be from their party.

It is simply astounding to realize how few people understand the necessity of having different views and robust debates, this being the mechanism by which you end up with the most equitable policies (possible).

Moralists: god-worshipping or secularists, are both control freaks, who cite morals when their ammunition to control others has gone thin. — god must be atheist

All that matters is that moral authority comes from a source that cannot be corrupted by man's intellectualism.

I think referring to what the US have right now as totalitarianism is a symptom of lost faith in your democratic system. I’m not sure if you quite realize what totalitarianism really amounts to. What you’re experiencing is a sense of lost freedoms, which is understandable in the current circumstances. But it’s not totalitarianism, by any stretch. The US appear to have a dichotomous perspective of the world: black or white, red or blue, left or right, freedom or totalitarianism, all or nothing, etc. In my view, it’s this general approach that needs to be examined... — Possibility

There are many things that are quite totalitarian about the U.S., e..g., international adventures where this country has exploited its military advantages (having military influence in 150 countries) as well as what the U.S. has done with the global economy (it's trashing of the monetary system and using this financial leverage to secure interests).

This same power has been turned inward, as well, as not only have various freedoms been attenuated over the past decades but the the economic sanctions levied on the middle class in this country from the 70's forward (e.g., financialization, out-sourcing of manufacturing jobs, and monetary manipulation) has been quite totalitarian.

Instead of some stereotypical Latin American drug lord in control, we have instead a cadre of bankers, corporate interests, politicians, and the media banging the same drum.

I thought "freedom" had a very specific definition. The freedom reportedly guaranteed or ensured by the state are in particular domains like religion for example, excepting of course the rather vague freedom to pursue happiness. That basically blows the lid off the responsibility of government - a government's primary function is to provide and protect our liberty but only in those areas that are liable to infringement of course. — TheMadFool

The state is a unique entity in that it both secures freedom for its citizens while (at the same time) being its biggest threat.

The state is capable of the former (working in the interests of its citizens) only when small enough to not turn the tables as it surely does when it becomes large enough and consumes its masters.

Forgive but do not forget, or you will be hurt again. Forgiving changes the perspectives. Forgetting loses the lesson.
— Paulo Coelho
A mantra for survivors (instead of victims), though I've occasionally succumbed to Otto von Bismarck's barbed maxim: forget, but do not forgive! which is an indulgence I'm confident I've outgrown. — 180 Proof

I've always tried to keep in mind that you can never understand what motivates others, so forgiving them is about not carrying around anger and hated that will only create negativity with your own life. This is why forgiving others is actually forgiving yourself.

I guess that one way of looking at it.

Does anybody in the West still want to be free?
— synthesis
Freedom from what?
Freedom to do what? — baker

Everybody has to figure that out for themselves. Imagine figuring out what you need to do all by yourself!

I love it! I can't tell if it's bait or true. I suppose to some, gaining freedom is the same as losing security. The security of not having to take responsibility for one's actions. — FlaccidDoor

Systems works by creating fear, then dependency, and your freedom is gone.

Risking security is entire purpose of being free.

Large organizations, be they states or corporations, on down to small non-profits, are controlling and repressive by their nature. People don't like to be controlled. I don't either. I want neither the state nor the corporation telling me what to do. I too want to be free.

But wake up: There can be no great individual freedom in the kinds of states and workplaces we exist in. — Bitter Crank

Step by step. The last thing you want to do to go backwards.

Problem is there are so many people who just don't seem to care very much about this sort of thing. They will accept whatever comes down the pike. Those who truly care about (anything) are few and far between, a big problem in times like these.

Ah well, publish the contracts between insurers and providers (hospitals, clinics, pharmacies Medicare/Medicaid, etc.). Here's a prime example: Big Pharma corrupted enough congress people (men and women both) to get a law passed forbidding Medicare/Medicaid from negotiating drug prices. Unconscionable. — Bitter Crank

That's just the "in your face" stuff (drug cartels). The more insidious undertaking was how the professions themselves were taken over by corporations and providers became willing dupes in the game of how do we separate as much money from patients as is possible. Believe me, every doctor has known what's been going on since the early 80's (or sooner if they were paying attention).

Nazi Germany, the USSR, Communist China...man created God because it became apparent that society needs something morally pure (above man) when he inevitably goes bad (and he always does).

Could the schools get any worse?
— synthesis

Yes. There ARE good schools with good students getting a good education. These schools produce the next generation of cadre that the ruling class needs to keep society functioning in the desired manner. Maybe 20% of American students attend these (usually suburban) schools.

Yes, there are some fairly good schools left, and a lot of schools that have won the race to the bottom. That's OK because the students attending the crappy schools were never going to be very useful, anyway, except as consumers -- which they'll do well as. — Bitter Crank

I would maintain that those going to the "good" school and are running the place are absolute idiots. I don't care if they aced every test since kindergarten, they are almost all fools.

Does anybody in public life ever tell the truth anymore?
— synthesis

Yes, Somebody, somewhere, is telling the truth in public. Why do you expect people in power to speak the truths that would probably result in their not being in power any more? — Bitter Crank

I just figured that somebody might want to sleep well at night.

Could political polarity be any worse?
— synthesis

Oh yes, much worse. Think Germany in the 1920s-1930s. Bloody street fighting between Communists and Nazis was a regular and frequent occurrence. Go Reds, Smash State! The Communists as well as the less radical, centrist parties were brutally suppressed as soon as the Nazis took power in early 1933. The recent storming of the US capital building was very widely condemned by both sides of the shallow groove that marks the shallow political divide.

The US doesn't really have much polarity -- we are a unipolar political system, the two poles are both capitalist.

We could, we should have more polarity -- workers of the United States, Unite -- then revolt. We have a small amount to lose, and a lot more to gain. — Bitter Crank

BC, what's with all this anti-capitalist bullshit? Do you believe that all of this just started at the dawn of capitalism? Life before capitalism was MUCH worse for the average dude. It was brutal. And I know, they didn't do communism/socialism right everywhere it has been a complete disaster (which is everywhere its been tried).

Could the fact that the health care system is corrupt beyond your wildest dreams be any more evident?
— synthesis

Yes, the corruption could / should be much, much more evident than it is. — Bitter Crank

How is that possible?

Freedom is no longer discussed by the sake of freedom, but for the sake of power. — Gus Lamarch

Yeah.

Over the past years it has become apparent (to me) that man needs a higher, everlasting moral authority because depending on intellectualism to achieve the same results in what every other foray into intellectualism portends, birth, life, and death.

It has often been suggested that the great lesson of the 20th century was that the most efficacious method of controlling populations was not through coercion ala the USSR, Nazi Germany, or Communist China, but instead, by giving people EXACTLY what they desire.

IOW, people will gladly trade their freedoms for perceived securities. Let's consider pornography (sexual security?) as an example. I am a guy, I get it, but how it is possible that society allowed free access to pretty much EVERYBODY? Are people out of their f****** minds! Doesn't anybody care? And I could possibly understand how guys could "overlook" this idiocy, but how about women? Why haven't women been saying anything about it?

You can go down a very long laundry list of absolutely bizarre things that have been going on and almost nobody seems to care. Could the schools get any worse? Does anybody in public life ever tell the truth anymore? Could political polarity be any worse? Could the fact that the health care system is corrupt beyond your wildest dreams be any more evident? So on and on and on...

People need to do some think'in...

What else can one do?

So how do things which are clearly and obviously not possible, given a material universe, happen anyway? — Joe0082

Instead of people accepting that they cannot understand, they make-up all kinds of stories for fun and profit. It's been going on for a long time and seems as if it's not going to be stopping any time soon.

It's seems to be what people so best...bullshit.

I think that reading the TTC and similar can help increase flexibility and and awareness of our own limited perspectives. — Amity

The message of TTC is realization of the duality; the intellectual being a tool that can assist us if we accept its impermanent nature, but always pointing towards the non-intellectual where The Truth resides.

Thank you for your response. One of the most important things about forgiveness is that when you forgive others, you forgive yourself, as well.

The other factor that I found helpful was the realization that 99.999...% of what people do is about themselves. Once you come to this understanding, you can assume responsibility for your own life and lose the victim mentality that has stunted the development of so many young people over the past couple of decades.

But in this point I still disagree that introvert o more “lonely” people don’t need to be selfish at all. — javi2541997

Studies have repeatedly shown that the loneliness has little to do intro- or extroversion. People just seem to require differing levels of external preoccupation.

Although I have not served myself, I would think that many who found themselves in military service (particularly back in the day when conditions must have been pretty rough) would be somewhat homesick/lonely.

"Does Existence have any objective/universal meaning?". — SmartIdiot

Drinking beer. Driving 911's (not in that order).

Meaning is manifest in action...

Can’t make something great again if it’s never been great, people suffered.

When people suffer from only natural cause not human cause people can not be labeled great. — Tharealist

Within everything exists everything.

It is interesting how the 'American way' or whatever you'd like to call it is seen as good and right though there are very loose ideas that hold it together, such as freedom. — Experi

The American Way is (was?) an extremely important part of being American. Perhaps best characterized by Hollywood in John Wayne and Clint Eastwood western movies, being American was about individualism and an incredible sense of positivity, a spirit that attracted tens of millions of emigrants over the past two centuries.

It is the attempted re-writing of this history of great achievement with the mantle of victim-hood that has caused a great deal of the America's contemporary problems (along with massive systemic political and corporate corruption). Americans are very proud of what this country has been able to achieve but this does not mean that we are not willing to air out our dirty laundry and strive to move things forward. This 20's are going to be a difficult but very necessary catharsis for the U.S.

The ugly side of this country revealed itself when destiny decided it was time to assume global leadership after WWII. The elite took this as their opportunity to abandon the moral high-ground and do what elite have done for millennia, i.e., lie, cheat, and steal to their heart's content.

A civil debate seems to be getting ever rarer (other than on the philosophy forum, of course). Where does this lack of empathy for the other side stem from? — FlaccidDoor

Unfortunately, politics has taken on the role of religion in the West.

In order for Western politics to function properly, you need a robust debate between the progressives who see the need for change and conservatives who would like to preserve what they feel works.

At differing times, each of these strategies is the more efficacious path so the purpose of the political debate is to figure out which course makes the most sense with that particular issue at that particular time. It is not that one side is always right and the other is always wrong, but that's the way the true believers see it.

Politics needs to be returned to the secular realm and away from groups who believe that their way has been handed down from (not God) but from the gods of moral superiority.

If you believe that your way is The Way, you're wrong. Each situation requires careful consideration and sometimes changing policy this way makes the most sense, and sometimes changing it that way makes the most sense. After all, the United States did not become the most powerful nation in the world by always making the wrong decisions.

Interestingly, we are going to see what happens when one side controls all three branches of government. If the catastrophe unfolding at our southern boarder portends coming events, people are going to beg for balance in politics once again.

What do you think, what is happening? — RBS

Everybody has their own reality but few have the courage to live it, so they subscribe to whichever collective reality seems to massage their insecurities.

Just look at the number of white people who have bought into the meme that they are unconsciously racist. People will apparently latch onto any idea (no matter how absurd) if it gives if it helps to disguise their inability to stand on their own two feet.

Groups are very dangerous entities because individuals can be so weak.

Think about how much time we have all spent replaying the tragic scenes of our lives. And of course, the not so tragic ones, as well. Perhaps my favorite quote of all-time is Mark Twain's, "Some of the worst things in my life never happened." Do these ten words not say a great deal concerning the peril of living one's life in fear?

Being able to rapidly move-on in life is a precious gift and should be taught by those who are aware everywhere. Imagine the anguish that could be saved if most people could develop this capacity.

Apologies for leading the thread on a tangent, I’ve become enraged due to the recent anti-Asian shootings. — Saphsin

No problem. Racism is a super-charged issue and I used it only to give an example of how attached people can become to issues that arise in their lives. But whether it is racism, divorce, death, violence, or any significant loss, this is what we all must face in our lives. Understanding how to best confront these kinds of issues would be a better conversation for our nation to share than much of the divisiveness that is heard pretty much everywhere anymore.

I appreciate your comments, and others, as well.

This point of this post was not to point out that bad things happen, instead, it was to suggest that once the appropriate response is made, moving on as quickly as is possible is key.

Racism is simply another measure of how far humanity needs to go, but to suggest that one race is more guilty than another shows a severe lack of historical perspective. Racism has always been an equal opportunity social pariah and manifests itself according to who happens to be the prevailing power.

History is replete with slaughter after slaughter after slaughter...

It seems to me (from my experience) that people are drawn to search this from a profound life experience (generally, a negative one). When the usual answers do not suffice, then one starts searching for alternatives. That was certainly the case for me.

I was on a four year long ultra-intensive philosophical journey (after the death of my son) and I simply reached the end where the words provided me with nothing. A friend on a car group on the very early internet introduced me to Zen and I took to it immediately. I was ready because I was incredibly burned-out intellectually.

Perhaps people just need to be ready to accept the possibility that such a thing might "exist." I don't know (and cannot know). What I do know is what it has allowed me to do and how it profoundly changed my life.

You are trying to intellectualize something that you cannot. I would suggest that you read something like, "Tao Te Ching," by Lao Tsu, or perhaps, "Leaves of Grass," by Walt Whitman, as these are two books are critically acclaimed "attempts" at intellectualizing the non-intellectual.

At some point, though, you either have faith that this is case, or you do what 99.999...% of everybody does and just dismiss it.

It was synthesis who raised the idea that God is an absolute. I was just saying that this idea, of God as an absolute was in synthesis' mind. — Metaphysician Undercover

I wish I could take credit for but these ideas are thousands of years old.

Is there anything better in this life than a truly great dog!

The best we can do is go against the flow and ACT with the greatest skill possible. — Nikolas

If you are going against the flow, you'll end up just like the salmon.

Who knows but all of my dogs seem to have been pretty smart (and seemingly a lot smarter than their human :). After all, whom was serving who's needs?

One argument I have heard from Franz Liszt is that God exists outside of time, however for that to be the case, a God would have to be outside of the whole universe, which seems scientifically impossible given that nothing is outside of the universe by definition. — scientia de summis

In order to understand what is being said, consider the notion that is science that does not exist (in any real way). When you brush this abstraction aside, then all things become possible.

Curious! A dog does this all the time. It just "is" and sees things as they are without conceptual thought. Yet it takes a lot of effort for a person to become like a dog and experience the Absolute. — Nikolas

What makes you suggest that a dog does not have conceptual thought?

I agree that It does appear is if animals are much more in tune with 'what it is' but who knows?

Remember, according to me, we are incapable of (really) understanding anything. Although speculating on the this, that, and the other thing might satisfy a need to feel as if we have some kind of handle on our lives, it doesn't appear to be this way. The best we can do is go with the flow and react with the greatest skill possible.

They first duty of a state should be provide employment and food to their citizens. — javi2541997

Where is the state going to get the resources to provide employment and food for its citizens?

If the Absolute is non-intellectual, it is irrational. — d Luke

Many people have difficulty accepting the notion of The Absolute. It might be similar to trying to convince a bunch of seven year old boys (who believe that girls are super-yucky) how you believe your gorgeous girlfriend (who you just happen to be head over heels in love with) is an angel that descended from the heavens just for you. It would be a really tough sell.

Similarly, it is just as difficult for most to believe that anything "exists" outside of our intellect for the same exact reasons. Most people drawn to the non-intellectual are so because they have reached an intellectual impasse. Philosophy, science, and traditional religion are just not getting the job done.

So let me try this one more time...

That which is intellectual (The Relative) is constantly changing (impermanent). Although you can know it, you cannot really understand it in any real sense (although most believe they can). The intellectual exists in time and is subject to birth, life, and death.

That which is non-intellectual (The Absolute) is unchanging (permanent). You cannot understand it but you can be in its presence. The Absolute "exists" outside of time and is not subject to birth, life, and death.

The Absolute is that which we cannot know in any way except by the fact that (intellectually) it's the only thing that makes sense (well isn't that paradoxical). In order to get to the point where you can realize this, you must do the work necessary by enabling yourself to see things as they truly are. There is no intellectual pathway to this point. Meditation is one way to get there.

So it takes a bit of faith to believe that this is possible. Many people never do (even those who meditate for long periods of time as they are never able to let go of conceptual thought).

Looks are deceiving because you judge your sensations relative to your intentions. And your intentions may be misguided. — Metaphysician Undercover

Perhaps you can explain yourself here.