Comments

  • What characterizes the mindset associated with honesty?
    Is 'honest' a noun or a verb?YiRu Li

    Neither. It's an adjective:Vera Mont

    As Vera said, it is an adjective. I don't know if you are looking for a philosophical definition, but in terms of philology and vocabulary we can define 'honest' as: telling the truth or able to be trusted.
  • Welcome to The Philosophy Forum - an introduction thread
    I hope to live up to it and contribute good things to the forum.JuanZu

    I'm sure you will. Welcome to TPF, mate.
  • Where is everyone from?
    Have you met the devil yet?Sir2u

    Regularly.RobTAS

    What, like lunch at the club every Tuesday?Vera Mont

    You folks made me laugh! :lol:

    By the way, Tasmania seems to be an interesting place to visit. Both New Zealand and Australia, but sadly, they are very far away from my home, and I don't feel motivated enough to stay in an airplane for hours.
  • Philosophical Quotes About Art
    Works of art are things of imperfect beauty. If ever a work of art is made perfect, it becomes a crime. — Yukio Mishima
  • What are you listening to right now?
    Although Lana Del Rey is famous, I have never listened to any of her songs. Or maybe I actually did on the radio, but I have never noticed. :chin:
  • Where is everyone from?
    I am Spanish, born and living in Madrid.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    Thank you so much for your instructive response.

    Look! Continuing with the reading of Pears, another type of tautology emerges, referred to as 'deep.' David Pears states,'What is reflected in the mirror of language is reflected in the mirror of language,' or more simply, 'there is what there is.' These are deep tautologies because there is something underlying them, attempting to emerge and find a different expression.

    It is fascinating; language may be defined or investigated empirically, and according to Pears, the former is a necessary truth, and the latter is a contingent truth.

    Before ending this chapter, I would like to quote a beautiful phrase of Wittgenstein:
    To be happy is to see the world of facts as a whole with expanding limits, whereas an unhappy man feel that the same limits, enclosing the same facts, were pressing on him.

    Enough of tautologies! :grin:
  • Coronavirus
    'quickfix' experimental vaccinesTzeentch

    I partially agree with you, but without those 'quickfix' experimental vaccines, everything would have ended up in a disaster. At least, considering those weak and sick citizens who were more vulnerable when they were infected by Covid...
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    but I can talk a little about this point and see if it helps.013zen

    It was very helpful and pleasant to read. You explain yourself correctly.

    I now understand why some states that Wittgenstein was a sympathiser of positivism. You quoted some other authors who appeared in David Pears' book as well. Before joining this thread, I was completely lost. I think that one of the main 'issues' about Wittgenstein and his disciples is how they express themselves. They use a complex vocabulary which seems to only be sent to their 'Vienna' group. They make premises and arguments which are interesting, but nonetheless are difficult to follow if someone - like me - is not used to logical language.

    On the other hand, I don't consider Wittgenstein 'senseless' (I read this adjective about him a lot) but complex to follow.

    This is where I miss Austin a bit... and his 'ordinary language'

    Thanks to you and your example, I can understand what is about his 'pictures and logic'
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    OK. I understand, yet I want to thank you for helping me with your explanation of Wittgenstein. O13zen and you were the only ones who actually answered my questions, and I am pleased.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    @013zen

    Finishing today's chapter, David Pears concludes with something pretty interesting. He states: It may seem surprising that logic should reveal the essential structure of reality if the prepositions of logic are tautologies, and lack factual sense. How can something which is empty have content? But Wittgenstein does not suggest that tautologies say anything about reality. He suggests that when certain factual propositions are combined, a tautology is produced.

    It reminds me of when you explained to me that tautolgies have their place, and they are not rejected at all. At least Wittgenstein shows respect for this analytical position, but let's see what he thought when he changed his idea after the Tractatus.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    @013zen @Fooloso4

    Hello again, folks. Keeping on the book by David Pears. Chapter three is called 'pictures and logic', and I would like to share some thinking and points with you. Pears states: 'One more step is needed to complete Wittgenstein's task. If the limit of language is to include all factual proposition, the thesis of extensionality must be applied to elementary propositions. For if he applied it to non-elementary propositions, he would leave out some of the possible thruth-functions, because the base to which it was applied would be incompletely analysed. However, it is not this neutrality which proves that he was not a positivist of destruction type.

    Thoughts?

    Pears also states: Language would be then any language, the metaphysical subject would be the spirit, and Idealism would lie on the route from Solipsism to Realism. Z came from Russell, and X came from Frege. What was the origin of Y, the so-called picture theory of prepositions? Wittgenstein's explanation of logical neccesity, which depends on Y, still to be given.

    What does Y is about? To present truths in logical space? Or does David Pears refers to X and Y logical structure?
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    OK! Fair enough, I understand what David Pears is about on the very first pages of his book. I really appreciate your commitment to explaining both tautologies and David Pears' commentary. I probably will have some questions while continuing the reading. So, if you don't mind, I would like to share them with you.

    Until then. Nice to meet you and welcome to TPF! :up:
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    Interesting. If tautologies tell us what's the case in every possible world, why David Pears argue against them?

    Or more specifically, why did Pears argue that 'Tractatus' had empty tautologies, negatively? Following the chapter of his book, around pages 58 to 64, he even states that Wittgenstein never realised that his philosophical analysis on factual language holds some empty tautologies...

    A statement is a tautology if it's always true.013zen

    I agree, but Pears says:
    so the analyses will take the form of a statement which has no factual content, and is in that sense empty. For example, the analysis of the phrase 'material object' will take the form, 'if anything is a material object, then the following requirements will necessarily be met...' And this will be an empty tautology.

    Maybe it is me, but I think that David Pears sees empty tautologies as a weak statement in an argument.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    A tautology, however, has no content because it doesn't tell you anything about the world.

    Consider:

    "It's either raining or it's not raining"

    Etc

    This is empty of content, as it tells you nothing about the world.
    013zen

    Clear and good example. I am starting to understand the role of tautologies better. I can conclude that tautology can't help me to achieve the truth in a philosophical analysis and this is why it is rejected by logicians and critical thinkers, generally. By the way, thanks for commenting and helping me out with the understanding of tautologies.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    I see. Thank you for your explanation. I appreciate your help. I am only on page 60... Maybe I will find more answers and points about Pears, yet it is interesting to highlight that he states that these questions solve nearly nothing when they are answered.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    From the Tractatus...Fooloso4

    Thanks @Fooloso4. It is now clear to me what tautology is about.

    In one of these cases the proposition is true for all the truth-possibilities of the elementary
    propositions. We say that the truth-conditions are tautological.
    Fooloso4

    OK. But why does David Pears states that those tautologies are empty? Because it seems to me that the problem with Pears is the emptiness of a tautology and not the nature of this condition itself. This is why I was wondering what an empty tautology actually means.

    For me, when something is empty it means that have zero substantial significance.
  • A Wittgenstein Commentary
    Hello folks, I have a question. What is an empty tautology? I am currently reading David Pears' book on Wittgenstein, and the author says: Given that a word has a certain meaning, philosophical analysis can tell us exactly what will necessarily be the case if a statement containing that word happens to be true. Here the necessity will be tautological, or at least definitional, so the analyses will take the form of a statement which has no factual content, and is in that sense empty. For example, the analysis of the phrase 'material object' will take the form, 'if anything is a material object, then the following requirements will necessarily be met...' And this will be an empty tautology.

    I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me what David Pears means in that paragraph.

    In addition, Pears says: The difficult thing is to understand the status of Wittgenstein's conclusion, and the argument which was supposed to establish it. The problem raised by the argument is that he treats every step in it, including its conclusions, as absolutely necessary, without treating them as empty tautologies.

    Why does David see empty tautologies as a problem in an argument?
  • Currently Reading
    The Gambler, Fyodor Dostoevsky.
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    Yes, the situation is similar here. The government is composed of eight different political parties, and some of them criticised Pedro for not being more critical towards Israel. We had tough weeks because he was elected a few days ago, and there were a lot of debates in Congress.

    What I don't understand is why this international conflict took part in the investiture. I think my country is not that relevant, and I believe that Netanyahu doesn't care about what Spain would say at all. But you know, we have to say 'something', and Pedro decided to be brave and criticised Israel.

    I think this is even a strategic move because he promised that he would recognise Palestine as a sovereign nation in the future...

    I am afraid of the long term consequences. It is not cool to be targeted by Israel and his 'partners'...
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    Nobody asked us our opinion... but yeah, why not? Pedro is always there, even if nobody expects him.

    Spain's Pedro Sánchez tells Netanyahu number of deaths in Gaza 'truly unbearable'

  • Spirit and Practical Ethics
    China has the largest buddhist population in the world, but this doesn’t seem to have prevented them from also being the world’s highest emitter of carbon, surpassing the U.S. So much for ongoing responsibility for deeds.Joshs

    That doesn't follow the main point of OP, and China is not the main Buddhist country in the world. It is Cambodia, with 15.7M of Buddhists, which makes 96.8% of the population Buddhist. While in China there is just around 18 %, which is a lot for their population, but not as much as in Cambodia if we compare it with the percentage of active Buddhist believers.

    And yes, of course, I will root for a belief which shows a kind of responsibility for the soul, rather than 'commune' and redemption for just enter into heaven. The latter seems business to me.
  • Possible solution to the personal identity problem
    There is only one solution: the acknowledgement that personal Identity is a concept, a heuristic, not an objective feature of reality.hypericin

    Glad to see you posting again on the forum, mate. What you posted is interesting. I searched for what heuristic means, and the dictionary says: a method of learning or solving problems that allows people to discover things themselves and learn from their own experiences

    Thank you so much for quoting this concept because I wasn't aware of its existence until this morning. There is a big debate about the legislation in my country about transgender people. They now have the right to switch their gender and name more freely. Ignoring all the arguments which are against them because of conservative ideologies, I want to highlight the heuristic argument.

    Frankly, they say they feel like a 'woman' or a 'man' because this is what they feel. But how can this happen at all? According to heuristics, I learn by experience. So, how can I experience being a woman? Only if the transaction of souls exists. Another point that shows that transgender is a political debate and not a philosophical one.
  • Forum focused on people of (non-western European) color?
    To be honest, I don't know. I only know about the existence of that forum because I saw it in the main page of 'black lives matter' on Reddit.
  • New school of study into the way that Art promotes knowledge and understanding
    What is the name of this study?Saskia

    Hello Saskia, welcome to TPF.

    Firstly, both the quote and the question are very interesting, and they can be the subject of a thread itself. But, this is not what you are asking for, and I will give my best to approximate the name of the study and I hope I can help you.

    On the other hand, I think that study is called An Approach to a General Theory of Symbols or just The Theory of Symbols.

    Indeed, to Goodman, aesthetics is but a branch of epistemology. Paintings, sculptures, musical sonatas, dance pieces, etc. are all made of symbols, which possess different functions and bear different relations with the worlds they refer to. Hence, artworks require interpretation, and interpreting them amounts to understanding what they refer to, in which way, and within which systems of rules.Goodman
  • Forum focused on people of (non-western European) color?
    I assume there must be dedicated forums where minority groups discuss the issues that effect them particularly?TiredThinker

    Do you mean something like this?

    The Black Velvet Lounge

    Destee
  • What is love?
    I think the Greeks' different words for what we have subsumed into 'love' made some kind of sense, though. There is storge towards Ma and Pa; philia for the like-minded; eros for individual fierce attachments (though Plato had Diotima make this the fulcrum of everything) and agape for spiritual love. It would be an interesting enquiry as to how we have come to merge these different strands of feeling into the one word, which seems to me to burst at its seams to contain them all.mcdoodle

    Good post, and interesting points.

    When I attended college, I remember that I had a debate regarding paedophilia. It is quite obvious that in most of the legal regulations of each nation, a paedophile is a criminal of sex offence.

    But, I wanted to go beyond the punishment, and I did research on why some adults are in 'love' with minors. It turns out that the concept of 'minor' and 'adult' was blurred in the Roman Empire, and there was the possibility of being an adult at only 12 years old. In this context, a person who felt attracted to a boy or a girl during this life span was considered a paedophile, but not in a punitive way.

    What I attempt to say is that the 'love' on children was not punitive, but a sex offence. So, it was permitted a consensual relationship between a girl of 12 years old and a man of 30, if they loved each other.

    But nowadays, this is impossible. Our modern legislation understands that in most cases the elder person abuses on the younger. Furthermore, some analysts consider 'love' in kids as a psychological disorder.

    Interesting how the concept of loving can change with the passage of time...
  • Should there be a license to have children?
    Should there be a licence to have children? Short answer: yes. Will such a legislation ever be established in a nontotalitarian regime? No.Janus

    :up:

    What personal characteristics would you look for in approving or disapproving parenthood?BC


    Economic status and possibility of access to employment, not dependent upon drugs or alcohol, the no existence of domestic violence, the eventual parents want to create a family in the future, and they are not just 'crushes', they do not have debts, etc. Well, everything you need to be able to adopt.

    Do you think you are a competent prospective (or actual) parent? Why?BC

    No. If I not capable of taking care of myself, I can't parent a kid then. I think this is quite obvious, but for some folks not.
  • Climate change denial
    But hasn't it been failing off and on for like 800 years?frank

    :up:

    Russia is invincible and will never fall out.
  • Reason for believing in the existence of the world
    Cheers. I wish I could keep arguing and debating with you on this pretty interesting thread, but my knowledge of this topic is limited, and I am just a wannabe philosopher. I personally think that other members are more capable of answering your questions, or at least post more suitable answers. I think the website of Kelley Ross is good for learning, but it is true that it has complex paragraphs to understand. The link I posted below comes from an essay that has never been published, sadly. I don't understand why because it seems so interesting what Kelley Ross post there, and didactic with examples and explanation.

    Would this be the right interpretation for Kant?Corvus

    Regrading this question, Kelley Ross states: The question then is why the thing in itself remains in the theory. To subsequent generations it has seemed that Kant ends up with a precarious, paradoxical, and perhaps even incoherent dualism between things in themselves and the phenomenal objects produced by synthesis. The thought here, however, is that Kant was right to retain his dualism. It is one indication of how delicate is Kant's balancing act in the equation of "transcendental idealism" and "empirical realism" that it is the "realism" of the latter that even those sympathetic with Kant have trouble taking seriously.
  • Reason for believing in the existence of the world
    My answer to that question was, when I am not perceiving the world, there is no reason that I can believe in the existence of the world. I may still believe in the existence of the world without perceiving it, but the ground for my belief in the existence is much compromised in accuracy and certainty due to lack of the warrant for the belief.Corvus

    Corvus, I want to share with you some notes from Kelley Ross, when he finished his dissertation. My aim is not to force you to believe on the existence of the world, but to see another prospective in its prism. Ontological Undecidability

    Ross states:
    A thing in itself is in fact the object = x which stands outside of our knowledge, over and against our representations, and which in some way we suppose corresponds to the knowledge that we have of it. That would be the straightforward Cartesian view of things. In Kant's theory, however, all those functions of an "object" have been taken over by the object-forming functions of synthesis, and Kant's own awareness of this is evident enough in his conclusion that things in themselves are not known by us and so do not, in any familiar fashion, correspond to our representations after all.

    He continues:
    It is essential, therefore, that just how "realism" and "phenomenalism" are going to be distinguished from each other be pinpointed, both in Kant and in the larger picture of knowledge. Let me do this now by saying that the defining criterion for the difference, and the origin and essential feature of the whole matter, is as a question of existence: that we are all distinct, separate, and independent in existence from the things (except the body) that we know through perception. They can exist when we don't; and we can exist when they don't; and our veridical perceptions are supposed to represent them.

    But he admitted:
    The difficulty of phenomenalism, where "the representation alone must make the object possible," is that this feature of existence is easily lost. Indeed, if what phenomenalism means is that the reality of an object is exhausted by its features in the representation of a subject, then it is hard to see how this differs from solipsism or subjective idealism

    But, if we are not directly acquainted with the real objects of experience, and they exist, then the real objects of experience are separate from us.
  • Austin: Sense and Sensibilia
    There's no doubt that the meaning of "cricket" is being extended but I don't think it is being transformed in quite the way that a metaphorical use would extend it. "Cricket" is defined as a noun and we understand how it is constituted. But "cricket" in Austin's example is being used as an adjective, in a different category. This change, or stretching, is different from a metaphorical use.Ludwig V

    Honestly, I think Austin is not using 'cricket' as an adjective, but a prefix. According to him, this noun is 'always-the-same' meaning. If someone did not know the significance of 'cricket', he/she couldn't match it with other words such as 'ball', 'bat', 'pavilion', etc. This is why he states that the person might gaze at those words trying to find out a common factor.
    ...
    The factor here is the prefix cricket.

    It is similar to a metaphorical use. This is why Donald Davidson states: Thus, when Melville writes that "Christ was a chronometer," the effect of metaphor is produced by our taking "chronometer" first in its ordinary sense and then in some extraordinary or metaphorical sense.

    'Christ' is always-the-same meaning, while chronometer is a word whose significance can vary. It can work as a noun or in a metaphorical sense.
  • Winter projects
    Yeah, those are good solutions to my cursed walls of popcorn ceiling. I tried everything, but the pictures or pins ended up falling down, anyway. Although adhesive or sticky putty may be the best solutions, I think the weather in my city is inconvenient as well. I have never tried velcro... now that you have mentioned, it could be a good solution. By the way, I have to focus on colouring these damn walls, because when a room is a painting 'process' everything turns into a mess full of disorder and dust.
  • Austin: Sense and Sensibilia
    He was certainly influenced by Wittgenstein; I'm not sure how much Austin was present in his thinking, although the separation of literal and pragmatic meaning can be traced to How to do things with words.Banno

    I promise I had similar thinking after reading the paper, but I wasn't confident enough to express that the work of Davidson was influenced - or reminds me of - Wittgenstein, so I am happy to know that you have the same thought. Yet I mentioned Austin because it is the principal subject of this thread, but it is true that 'literal and pragmatic' belong to 'How to do things with words'. Well, fair enough with that interesting paper you shared previously, I don't want to get off-topic and disturb your - and the rest of the folks - analysis on 'Sense and Sensibilia'.
  • The purest artistic side of the sunset
    Are you studying pathology?Vera Mont

    No, I am a lawyer, and I am eventually studying to become a land registrar. I studied law at university between 2015 - 2019. :smile:

    You kind of reminded me to give more play to sunsets in the novel I've just started.Vera Mont


    I hope this basic and little thread gives you some inspiration for your novels or writings - if you are considering writing a new one! -

    this one takes place in the north-west of England - lots of hills and water, and no city lights. I wish I could go there to see what the light is actually like, but will have to settle for pictures. Don't we just love Google?Vera Mont

    I agree! Google Maps and Images are one of the best inventions ever. Thanks to these, I am able to see Japanese landscapes which I will never see in real life, probably...
  • Austin: Sense and Sensibilia
    t's a good read, showing that understanding a metaphor involves understanding its literal meaning.Banno

    It is a good reading. Thank you for sharing the paper.

    A metaphor makes us attend to some likeness, often a novel or surprising likeness, between two or more things. This trite and true observation leads, or seems to lead, to a conclusion concerning the meaning of metaphors. Consider ordinary likeness or similarity: two roses are similar because they share the property of being a rose; two infants are similar by virtue of their infanthood. Or, more simply, roses are similar because each is a rose, infants, because each is an infant
    .

    Perhaps, then, we can explain metaphor as a kind of ambiguity: in the context of a metaphor, certain words have either a new or an original meaning, and the force of the metaphor depends on our uncertainty as we waver between the two meanings. Thus when Melville writes that "Christ was a chronometer," the effect of metaphor is produced by our taking "chronometer" first in its ordinary sense and then in some extraordinary or metaphorical sense.

    This reminds me of Austin's arguments on chapter VII, when he states: Consider the expressions 'cricket ball', 'cricket bat', 'cricket pavilion', 'cricket weather'. If someone did not know about cricket and were obsessed with the use of such 'normal' words as 'yellow', he might gaze at the ball, the bat, the building, the weather, trying to detect the 'common quality' which (he assumes) is attributed to these things by the prefix 'cricket'. But no such quality meets his eye; and so perhaps he concludes that 'cricket' must designate a non-natural quality, a quality to be detected not in any ordinary way but by intuition.
  • The purest artistic side of the sunset
    I cannot always leave the building in time so that I am there to witness the explosion. It's a grand show, no tickets needed.L'éléphant

    Not surprising, then, they figure so largely in painting and literature.Vera Mont

    I am happy to share my admiration of sunset with you, mates. I knew there would be members who would appreciate this gift from nature. I had to go to a mortuary yesterday. It is far from the centre of Madrid, and it is located in a zone where you can see all the sky, no buildings interrupt. The mortuary started at 16:00, and I left around 18:05, when the sky started to become a blurred orange and purple colour. I regret not taking a photo...