Why do you say abortion isn't murder? — christian2017

Check the dictionary definitions of both terms and stop misusing them.

Regards
DL

Hindu Caste system in India. — christian2017

Yes. It is immoral.

Regards
DL

They are called "the people of the book" in the Koran, which is chock-full of hatred of them. You are seriously unaware of that? — Nobeernolife

Too dumb for words, especially after you wrote the following you stupid dumb ass.

"So you don´t. I call BS on that, unless you can provide a reference."

I have your double standard now you pathetic hypocrite.

Regards
DL

So you don´t. I call BS on that, unless you can provide a reference. — Nobeernolife

If you are too stupid to do your own research-----

Regards
DL

Abraham is a prophet of Islam, so why would Allah hate the followers of the god of Abraham? He would have to hate his own followers — Alvin Capello

I would say that any god who offers a bunch of virgins in heaven as a reward, just to the men of course, hates them as I see that as a curse more than a blessing both against Muslim men and their women.

Regards
DL

Do you have a reference for the idea that the Pope financed death camps? — Nobeernolife

Not at hand but the Jesuits were implicated as well as a section of the Vatican whose label I have forgotten that are charged with pushing the Vatican's ideology.

They have changed the name of that branch of late but it is still alive and well.

Regards
DL

NB: You might want to go slow with bringing the Nazis into this, seeing that Hitler was a great admirer of islam and had the Mufti of Jerusalem in Berlin advising him on the Jewish problem. — Nobeernolife

Did he, like the pope provide staff for the death camps as well as funding?

Regards
DL

As for the atheist church thing, i've heard of that. Its hard to call naturalists moral, when they approve of abortion. I find most naturalists/atheists to be complacent and apathetic. To be fair modern christian are essentially the same. — christian2017

Except for the vile actions that come out of the religious as compared to atheists.

Atheism sure beats religious penchants of war mongering and lawlessness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA

Regards
DL

Why do you say otherwise? — christian2017

Because all courts would say that those performing abortions do not pass the mens rea standards that all courts go by and that you should consider with your slander.

Don't think about it and just keep misusing the language.

Regards
DL

but it does kill brain cells and thats been proven. — christian2017

I have read every major report since the 1901 Hemp report. That would include what those in the industry call their Bible, The LeDain Royal Commission On Cannabis. Its's findings are also available in the LeDain Royal Commission Report on Psychotropic drugs that is also the benchmark of the drug research industry.

They belie your statement. Get any peer reviewed repot or retract your lie.

You should know by now that I say nothing I cannot back up. You should be so honest.

Regards
DL

You should do some research on the ancient Amorites. Have you ever read the book of Isaiah or Jeremiah (to find out more about the ancient Israelites). — christian2017

I have read more than 8 differen religious holy books. My mind set is to ignore much of them and focus on moral issue.

This well done link is exactly the conclusion I came to for basically all theologies based on supernatural stupid thinking.

https://vimeo.com/7038401

For Athena.

Here is a transcript to one of the best and most honest views of Yahweh that I have ever seen.
Page 68 on is what that top link shows.

https://www.hattrick.co.uk/Prods/GOT/GoTscript.pdf

Regards
DL

Please show it, otherwise I call BS on you. — Nobeernolife

I call B.S. on you ignoring history and reality and wanting me to be your research bitch.

I think we are done here a hole.

Regards
DL

We could also speak of the Zionist Christians and Israel's failure to meet United Nations mandates and Trump's approval of Israel's land grab and the Christian Right that supports him. — Athena

I did not read or hear Trump speak to the land grab issue but the right wing of Christianity is urging Israel both in words and cash to rebuild the temple and bring on Armageddon.

The stupidity of god intervening aside, I have to wonder what the Muslim world would do if Israel actually retook the mount and kicked the Muslims out.

A nuke to the mount is not that far out of the question as retaliation.

Regards
DL

Please tell me the passages where Yaweh directly instructs his followers to hate and fight the followers of other existing religions. Thanks.

Can I expect.... crickets? — Nobeernolife

Don't work so hard to be a G D ass hole. You are naturally one, it seems, and do not have to try so hard.

You herd it from this grouchy old fuck and if you disgust me, you must have one hell of an impact on nicer people like Athena.

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Qur'an 8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: `Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Regards
DL

and it was not that long ago when segregation was a very ugly reality including terrorism to keep the dark skinned people powerless. — Athena

I am surprised to see you make such a false premise.

You put it in the past when it is still the reality in the U.S.

I see the institutionalized discrimination against your colored people, who fill your jails, as a good way to stop colored reproduction and keep the whites always in the top position.

This ongoing abuse I see as an ongoing genocide of whites against the colored as it not only effects those in jail but also the economic and social growth of the colored.

Some will not see that as a good analogy to what Hitler did but I see the same results when I look at the big picture.

A fascist regime, be it Hitler's or the U.S.'s, always favors it's own over any other race.

I see us all as slaves to our oligarch owners but if I was black, for instance, I would see it as masa trying to kill off all the field n word, while favoring the off color piccaninnies and house n word s.

Regards
DL

Does he say that his believers must hate and fight the Christians, Jews, and Polytheists? — Nobeernolife

Yes. All who do not kowtow to Christianity are to eventually be destroyed.

There is only one god allowed just as in Islam.

Regards
DL

For reference, under islamic law, homosexuality is punishable by DEATH. — Nobeernolife

Ditto in Christianity and the bible to those who want to interpret it that way. Right wing Christians do.

Regards
DL

Jesus ---- type who did not interfere with the authorities — Nobeernolife — Gnostic Christian Bishop

That is pretty lame. How about letting the authorities arrest and kill you?
You are comparing THAT to Muhammed? — Nobeernolife

You did not mention Muhammad and neither did I in what I wrote.

Reading comprehension can always improve. I do not mean my imperfect one.

Regards
DL

I have only one comment to your well put post.

Now like the followers of Hitler we think we are superior to all others and this smells of fascism. — Athena

The U.S. is a Christian Nation, or at least that is how it touts itself.

Christianity is a fascist ideology and to think the U.S. is other than that is foolish.

You might have noted that at the end of WWII, the Vatican, which was still Hitler's bank, was instrumental in both manning some German death camps in the Eastern nations and funded the escape of Hitler's top brass in their escape.

Fascists help fascists when they are not trying to annihilate themselves.

Regards
DL

I do not know who the fekk "David" — Nobeernolife

That was King David. The same one whose son was tortures by Yahweh for 6 days before he finally murdered him, all because he was angry with the King David.

Who would torture babies? Yahweh did. Yep, he is sure an improvement over Allah. Not.

Regards
DL

Fact is that the Jesus figure (and it is irrelevant if he existed or not) never fought wars — Nobeernolife

True, except perhaps his war against organized religion, but his promise to kill all apostates when he returns says that if he existed in the past and had power, he would have done so back then.

What did he say about not comming to bring peace even back then but war and turning brother against brothe etc.

Regards
DL

Now, I have not met any Christians who believe that it is their duty to practise literal Old Testamentarial law, have you? — Nobeernolife

Yes. Many Christian homophobe and misoginistic pricks who refuses to grant all souls equality.

Regards
DL

Jesus ---- type who did not interfere with the authorities — Nobeernolife

Hmm.

Did he not throw a fit when chasing the merchants and money changers away from the temple and criticizing the religious hierarchy for allowing it?

If Jesus was not criticizing his religion and hierarch, why did the Jews he preached to threaten to stone him and made him run away on occasion?

Regards
DL

My comments were based on the assumption that god exists and is as defined, all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful.

I have no proof of god, neither an argument that stands up to scrutiny nor anything by way of religious experience. However, there seems to be a mathematical formula in re belief in god: the strength of your belief is directly proportional to the amount of trouble you're in. — TheMadFool

Most, and especially the intelligentsia do not see that benevolent definition at all. This quote, I hope, will be closer to the truth of what everyone thinks.

Richard Dawkins.
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Regards
DL

:lol: You and I are having a very different conversation than everyone else. I prefer the conversation we are having. — Athena

Great minds think alike. ;-) :lol:

We did not begin in Paradise, but as animals trying to stay alive. Please, please can have a discussion that is based on reality? — Athena

We actually do begin in paradise, from a babies POV. All their needs and wants are being met, hopefully, by a parent and the tribe that one is born in. That heavenly situation changes of course when the child grows up and has to start providing for others and his tribe. That is when duty makes most think that they are no longer in heave. Lest we forget though, gods are created to serve mankind and not the other way around like what G D self serving churches do.

Now what we have to do is determine if harm is done or not. That is self-evident, isn't it? I mean deciding if it causes harm or does not cause harm depends on what is so, not on believing a myth. — Athena

Yes to your first.

Perfect. To your last.

That is a bit crazy, isn't it? I think I am getting a headache: lol: — Athena

Yes it is crazy. your views on democracy and logic and reason reminded me of this link on science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRLR9jhP_DM&NR=1&feature=fvwp

So it behooves us to learn of the Deming model and rethink our power as citizens in the US. — Athena

You are way more knowledgeable on this issue.

From the little I know of the German and Japanese systems, they have a well organized, unionized work force and those have been shown to be more productive. Meanwhile, many of the Western governments try hard to fight against organized and unionized workers to the detriment of production and advancement. Seeing this is partly why my socio economic demography pyramid theory is based on organized guilds that would bring production to it's highest possible degree.

We are so used to impediments from governments that it is doubtful that our Western societies will move that way.

It seems that many, especially in the simplistic uneducated U.S. that, socialist, to many, means something other than democracy with necessary and required social programs. They see social one payer medicine and education as pure invasive socialism.

Stupid is as stupid thinks and the U.S is intentionally dumbing down it's population just as religion tries and has succeeding in doing.

Regards
DL

Or to make this a lot of fun, why would a human want to be a god? — Athena

Being a supernatural god would be a bore I think.

Now being a human god without super powers, the epitome of being human, would be us being true to our instincts that should be pushing us to be the fittest human we can be. In terms of our instincts, that would give us the right to get as many girls as we can get. Our instincts do not know that we live in societies where such antics are frowned upon now that we have become apex predators instead of the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet.

This song says what we should all be trying to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGCdLKXNF3w

Regards
DL

The amorites were committing genocide (infanticide) on their own people and they oppressed their poor. — christian2017

We today also oppress our poor by keeping them poor with our taxing systems.

In ancient city states with finite resources, baby sacrifice would have been seen as better than creating starvation for the workers who grew and harvested the food that sustained the tribe, whatever name it held.

To think it was done regularly by custom would have had that tribe eventually dwindle to nothing.

i don't believe it is less moral. — christian2017

Alcohol is the only psychotropic drug known to kill brain cells. For that reason, I think it is more moral to use other substances for intoxication. Alcohol also creates more violence than many of the other drugs we have access to. Do unto others. We have all heard the joke of ---- what would you like to see coming at you in a car. A drunk going 120 who thinks he is going 100 or a pot smoker going 80 while thinking he is going 100. If one is going to get hit, one would hope for a pot intoxicated person over a drunk. Pot seems to be the more moral drug.

Abortion is forgivable but it is murder. — christian2017

You misuse the language.

Its better to die young then grow up in a very depressing and corrupt culture.... — christian2017

Suicide stats belie this.

As to worse things, i find that naturalism and/or atheism leads to a simplistic view on how to treat people so it would benefit my spirits to become naturalist or atheist. — christian2017

I would not call it simplistic, but agree.

The older atheists did not have my full respect until they began forming atheist churches. Those are more like the old mystery schools and those I approve of as then, atheists are recognizing our tribal natures more and are doing their duty to their children by providing an intelligent tribe for their children instead of just letting them gravitate to some immoral mainstream religion based on fantasy and the supernatural.

ok. I make the best pizza in the world but how would i prove that on an online forum. — christian2017

That is a subjective call on your part as it is tuned to your taste. All you can prove is your taste says it is the best. You might like a meat lover pizza while many would like those yucky pineapple ones. I like the hot and spicy so would reject your best as not the best.

Regards
DL

Christians typically aren't allowed to do evangelizing on sites like this. — christian2017

Apologetics is not evangelizing. It is explaining the text with arguments and opinions and not just quoting it the way the more stupid believers do.

I go on this site so that i consume less alcohol. — christian2017

Try pot. It is way healthier and a change of thinking pattern might be handy.

Christians tend to have equal or better morals than naturalists. — christian2017

???

Do naturalists believe that genocide and infanticide are good character traits? I don't think so.

Stop being so stupid drunk.

Lets say hypothetically someone gave you 80, 90 or 99 percent proof or a substantial argument that your philosophy/religion was inferior to theirs, wouldn't that drive you to depression? I would love to have a great reason to embrace atheism or naturalism. I can think of far worse things. — christian2017

Depression??

Hell no. It would be glorious. One of the greatest joys in life is being corrected. To resist it is to want to remain on the wrong path. Christians do that, en mass, as they put their tribal associations ahead of their moral sense. Gnostic Christians do the opposite, and being that we are perpetual seekers after the best rules and laws to live by, I would even pay money to lose an argument.

As to worse things. Just look at the mainstream religions.

By some. And then others think you are crazy. And then others think you have terrible sexual immorality. — christian2017

Only the stupid who do not know a Gnostic Christian and only believe the lies that the inquisitors put out to justify their many murders of my forefathers.

I find you belligerent and obtuse, — christian2017

I am a fundamental, yes, but you cannot quote or find anywhere where I am obtuse.

Stop lying you drunken bum. Kidding on that last.

You are just repeating in your last so I will ignore it.

Regards
DL

I can promise you if you try to see Jesus Christ as a simple and direct no nonsense kind of kind guy, not only will you find plenty of modern christians who will think like you but you'll also eventually find contradictions in the Bible. — christian2017

Contradictions in the bible I already know by the score and having suffered my apotheosis and gained a Christ consciousness, I can tell you that any modern Christian who, given the nature of Christianity, remains a Christian and does not convert to either Gnostic Christianity or atheism, they will not think like me or Jesus.

Many are called to do so but remain on the wide road to hell instead of joining me in heaven.

Regards
DL

Listen.... I said he didn't change anything. He didn't change the law of Moses. He simply said that even Moses (or God if you will) preferred no divorce. My assumption was you would make that very small leap in thought. — christian2017

I Indicated that the Yahweh/Jesus combo wanted a no divorce policy. Not Moses. He did not reply to Jesus in that passage.

Regards
DL

I was simply saying that you weren't as close minded as i originally thought. — christian2017

I am a Gnostic Christian and we are known as the only good Christians by some because we have open minds.

I apologise quickly when I goof, and I cannot speak for your experience, but I do not want to believe that the other members hers are as uncouth as you say they are.

I do recognize that the majority are belligerent and obtuse, but I hope not as ill mannered as you think.

Perhaps you have Christians in mind as they are mostly as you describe.

Regards
DL

Are you implying modern christian don't read the Bible (including Proverbs chapter 1 KJV)? I agree. — christian2017

Given the lack of decent apologists for Christianity, I can affirm that I doubt that any Christians are reading or living by even the good parts of the bible.

The Catholic Church is even putting priests out there to do apologetics and even they are falling flat on their faces.

This is not surprising as they never had decent moral values to sell and that is why they resorted to murderous inquisitions instead of moral debates. Then as now, Christians are moral cowards.

Trust me on this. I have a long history of being insulted by Christians as they run for the hills.

Regards
DL

Jesus Christ didn't refute the law of Moses. If Moses allowed divorce, Jesus Christ didn't change that, and if you would like you can try to prove otherwise. — christian2017

I did not say he changed anything. Thanks for the deflection. I said he endorsed a no divorce policy and it is an unjust policy.

If Moses allowed divorce which he did, Jesus Christ was simply saying that the pharisees (and people like that) were taking the issues of the sex and the heart far too lightly. As you well know divorce is not a light issue. — christian2017

You are adding a lot to scriptures without even quoting the original.

You are deflecting all over the place and want me to read half the bible instead of being honest with the text.

Typical Christian.

Seems like we are done here.

Regards
DL

Matthew 19 doesn't say not to have a divorce. Where do you see that? Jesus Christ said himself he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Matthew 19 doesn't say don't have a divorce but that it is not something to enter into lightly. — christian2017

It is inferred. But ok.

if you do not grasp that, tell us what was the law in the beginning that Jesus was endorsing if not a no divorce policy that the Church later enforced and codified.

Was it, what god has put together let no man put asunder, or whatever the Christian phrase was? IOW, no divorce.

Sex and the heart are closely linked is why divorce should not be taken lightly. — christian2017

Hogwash. Sex is cheep these days as shown with the V D stats in so called Christian nations and every pick up bar and internet fuck buddy site. Jez, do you live in a hole somewhere?

I actually never said you said that but that you fall into the profile of someone who might say something like that. I actually never literally accused you of saying that. You appear to be more open minded than i originally though — christian2017

Was that an apology?

You show how uncouth you are. A gentleman would just apologise and shut the hell up.

Thanks anyway.

Regards
DL

god figure described in islam is different — Nobeernolife

Different as the Christian Yahweh is different from the Jewish version.

Islam says that Mohammad is a prophet of the same god. The final prophet.

Strange that we are talking the beginning and interpretations in Islam, yet the link I gave you is irrelevant when it ties Yahweh's angel to Mohammad.

You are too stupid for me. Done here.

Regards
DL

If i claimed to be a devout christian, that doesn't mean i'm a devout christian nor does what i claim to be mean that that is what i am. — christian2017

Irrelevant.

Regards
DL

Where did Jesus say no divorce. — christian2017

Matthew 19:8 King James Version
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Sex and the heart are closely linked. Why would you say otherwise? — christian2017

Where did I say that?

I did not. Get the quote as words matter. Right?

Especially like here where you lie.

Regards
DL

I am am using simple logic. — Nobeernolife

Logic does not apply to the supernatural realm.

All that can be said of the supernatural is speculative nonsense.

You are more stupid than you think.

Regards
DL

Stop trying to obfuscate the picture with weasel words. — Nobeernolife

Stay willfully ignorant.

https://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/2009/04/angel-gabriel-and-muhammad.html

Regards
DL

Yes or no? — Nobeernolife

Don't know and do not care what imaginary gods think or do.

The Muslim perception and tradition stems from the Judeo Christian traditions and just as Christians usurped Yahweh from the Jews, the Muslims usurped Yahweh from the Christians.

Regards
DL