• Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    The obvious implication of my argument is that there’s intelligence (consciousness or mind) behind the universe ...Sam26
    Parsimony be damned, the principle of explosion (& effect of other "obvious" fallacies) always ... works in mysterious ways. :pray:

    If our [my] goal is to win an argument at all costs because we don’t like a particular [valid, scary] conclusion, then we are [I'm] not doing good philosophy ... especially if our [the] goal is truth.
    Confession is good for the soul, they say; don't you feel better now, Sam? :smirk:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    And I've long argued that if an individual life is understood as part of a continuum extending before physical birth that has consequences beyond physical death, that this can provide a framework within which the life beyond is at least conceivable.
    — Wayfarer

    Okay, so make the case – a sound argument – for this alleged "continuum" ... Once the facts of the matter are established, then we can interpret their philosophical ramifications (and, maybe, derive cogent, metaphysical conclusions). :chin:
    180 Proof
    No doubt, @Wayfarer, you accidently missed this request.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Spirituality is a non-rational toolTarskian
    More precisely, "spirituality" is a stance or disposition towards daily experience (like e.g. creativity) and not merely a means-to-ends "tool".

    ... to stimulate survival instinct ...
    Not so. "Survival instinct" is autonomic (like e.g. respiration) and therefore does need to be extrinsically "stimulated".

    ... by connecting to something that is greater than ourselves and which is divine in nature ....
    I.e. metaphysics (i.e. categorical / absolute ideas) that is expressed via rational (inferential, dialectical) and/or non-rational (analogical, mythical) discursive practices.

    Philosophy is not meant to do that and therefore cannot replace that.
    Really? Tell that to Daoists, Confucists, Vedantists, Pythagoreans, Epicureans, Stoics, Neoplatonists, Aristotleans, Spinozists et al ... Each of these philosophies are manifest "spiritual" ways of life.

    Unlike spirituality, philosophy is not meant to assist with mental healthcare.
    This may be true of modern academic philosophy (e.g. Anglo-American analytical philosophy, Viennese logical positivism, Parisian post/structuralism, etc) but not true of contemporary variants on and applications of way of life philosophies (some of which I've already mentioned) such as (e.g.) rational emotive hehavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, existential therapy, logotherapy, clinical philosophy, etc.

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/when-philosophers-become-therapists
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    If you prefer; for lucidity's sake I prefer unknown to the loaded, anti-scientific term "miracle".
  • Personal Identity and the Abyss
    "Personal identity" is an illusion (i.e. not what it seems – because biological & psychological changes are transparent to the subject) of self-continuity, or embodied cognition (primarily memory). Also, see Ship of Theseus / Neurath's Boat.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurath%27s_boat
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Okay if not "god", then what do you mean by "free miracle"?
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    physics after the free miracleAmadeusD
    I.e. mygoddidit-of-the-gaps :sparkle:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    12August24

    TIM240826-Kamala-Cover-FINAL.jpg?quality=75&w=2400

    Roevember is coming! :victory: :cool:
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    Philosophy cannot replace spirituality.Tarskian
    What do you mean by "philosophy"and "spirituality" – what makes them fundamentally different?

    NB: Greco-Romans of the Hellenistic era practiced their philosophies (Epicureanism, Stoicism, Neoplatonism, etc) as ways of life consisting of "spiritual exercises" (P. Hadot).

    ???
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    You will find no other philosophy so reviled, misunderstood, and scorned, yet still true.
    — schopenhauer1

    Hallmark belief of a religious cult.
    Lionino
    :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Physicalism is, in slogan form, the thesis that everything is physical....
    —Stanford Encylopedia of Philosophy
    Wayfarer
    Yeah, of course, you"re making my point again: you traffic in slogans – strawmen – rather than informed, valid arguments. :smirk:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    There’s no way I’m voting TrumpJohn McMannis
    If so, then vote against him in the most effective way based on your situation: if you live in a swing state (i.e. polling trends are within the margin of error so that there is a reasonable chance for Trump to win your state), then vote "Harris-Walz"; if, however, you live in a safe state (i.e. Trump can't either lose or win that state), then vote for a third-party candidate who most aligns with your policy preferences (e.g. I will write-in "Cornel West" here in Washington state).
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Defenders of physicalism will say:

    1. The predictive [& explanatory] power and technological applications of physics are unparalleled by those of any other purported source of knowledge.

    2. Therefore what physics reveals to us is all that is real.
    Wayfarer
    Your second statement does not follow from the first statement which is why physicalists do not – I do not – make such a claim. Sadly, Wayf, you're still shadowboxing with strawmen rather than making actual valid arguments.
  • Is A Utopian Society Possible ?
    ... without pain, suffering, disease, wars, poverty or even death.kindred
    Suitable for flora but not fauna.
  • Israel killing civilians in Gaza and the West Bank
    :eyes: Troll is, I guess, as troll does.
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Where is your evidence that people's perceptions that they are real, means they are real?

    Remember the sun circling around the Earth? Feeling like things are real is not the same as it actually being real. Even if a lot of people feel that it is. 

    The problem again, is you keep presenting information that definitely shows that NDEs are real subjective experiences, but does not have enough weight to argue that the interpretation of these subjective experiences match reality.
    Philosophim
    Are you paying attention to someone patient enough to spoon-feed criticisms I and others have made countless times of your non-philosophical non-arguments, @Sam26? :eyes:

    I have an open mind ...Wayfarer
    Not so "open", I hope, that your brain falls out. :smirk:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    Well, we just disagree.
    @Sam26

    It is more than that. Your claim is objectively not a strong inductive argument, and you have objectively failed to present a good and cogent argument worth considering. This is the philosophy boards, not the opinion boards.
    Philosophim
    :100:

    :up:

    And I've long argued that if an individual life is understood as part of a continuum extending before physical birth that has consequences beyond physical death, that this can provide a framework within which the life beyond is at least conceivable.Wayfarer
    Okay, so make the case – a sound argument – for this alleged "continuum" ... Once the facts of the matter are established, then we can interpret their philosophical ramifications (and, maybe, derive cogent, metaphysical conclusions). :chin:
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?
    Awe trumps envy. :gasp:
  • A Review and Critical Response to the Shortcomings of Popular Secularist Philosophies
    :ok: And yet ...
    Schopenhaurean pessimism merely amounts to self-fulfilling immiseration180 Proof
    i.e. learned helplessness. :mask:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

    As for the OP's 'problem of secularism', I think it is the same as the 'problem of democracy': tolerance of the intolerant (i.e. sectarian anti-secularists & partisan anti-democrats, respectively), and not uneven, or inconsistent, 'Enlightenment melioration-ism' per se.
  • A Review and Critical Response to the Shortcomings of Popular Secularist Philosophies
    ... the profound and universal nature of human dissatisfaction.schopenhauer1
    Even though dukkha cannot be eliminated, it is reduced or mitigated frequently and in many reliable ways daily by many persons. As a daily exercise for cultivating 'well-being', Epicurean "tetrapharmakos" is therapeutically comparable to (even more pragmatic than) the "Four Noble Truths" or the Daodejing & the Zhuangzi. One doesn't need to remain dissatisfied with the prevalence of dissatisfaction; reducing dissatisfaction, however much or temporarily, cultivates degrees of 'satisfaction'. Schopenhaurean pessimism merely amounts to self-fulfilling immiseration (even though it aptly reflects an inescapable fact of (human) existence). As Cioran points out, we suffer from being conscious of life – how we interpret life – and not life itself; likewise, absurdists like Zapffe, Camus & Rosset say as much as well. At least Mainländer wasn't a hypocrite like Schopenhauer and lived out the logical conclusion of his anti-life metaphysics. :smirk:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    I'm not assuming anything. I'm making an inference based on the testimonial evidence ...
    —Sam26

    The correct inference should be: these people had some mental experiences, not that these mental experiences were of actual events. A mental experience COULD be associated with an actual event, but there's no evidence of it.
    Relativist
    :100:

    :up: :up: I.e. the interaction (e.g. energy conservation violation) problem¹ of 'mind-body dualism' presupposed by @Sam's ontic interpretation of statistically de minimis, anecdotal "NDEs" "OBEs" etc.

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/#Int [1]
  • Ponderables of SF on screen
    So, if and when it or they develop an independent self-awareness, it will be different from ours due to their very different evolutionary path and their very different requirements for survival. But their base knowledge will be our penultimate knowledge. They're unlikely to be either kind or cruel, sentimental or superstitious. They're likely to be even-tempered, rational and practical. Whether they have any use or room for us will depend on whether some vestige of the original purpose of their existence remains in effect.Vera Mont
    :up: :up:

    Organic entities are driven by the survival instinct: internally motivated.
    In other words, initially un/pre-conscious (as per Libet's experiments) and consistent with cognitive phenomena such as e.g. sleepwalking (i.e. performing complex tasks while functionally asleep / blacked-out) and blindsight, no?
  • Tragedy and Pleasure?
    Well, whatever makes you think I look vulnerable?!
    Dae ye no' ken I'm a hard-nosed, Glaswegian bitch from hell...with the fuckin' filthiest mouth ye widnae touch wi' a barge-pole. Ma Hielan' grannie is worser than dried heather stuck up yer arse.
    Amity
    :cool: :up: That's the fuckin' spirit, miss!

    'Cept for unaccompanied progress among the many randy hoopleheads in the thoroughfare day and night and bushwhackin' dirt-worshippin' heathens on the roads to and fro, I counsel you, ma'am, to freely seek your fortune or demise among us, the swollen ranks of prospectin' and thievin' cocksuckers, here in Deadwood. :flower:
  • Tragedy and Pleasure?
    TV series like  Sopranos, Breaking Bad,  Succession, etc ...
    What is it about the stories or characters that you don't care about?Amity
    I'm neither intrigued with nor inspired by long-form or episodic stories about contemporary (i.e. clichéd) gangsters, drug dealers and plutocrats, respectively. Those 'worlds' are too prosaic and banal for me to imagine myself 'being there'.

    And what makes Al someone you are attracted to?
    Poetry. I'm "attracted to" all the very human, Deadwood characters, major and minor, because each one is an oracle of syntaxes and silences, profanities and humor peculiar to that imaginary-historical place. I'm even more "attracted to" the female and beta-male (i.e. quasi-Beckettian) characters than I am to Al Swearengen (even though he tends to be more quotable and one of the two main protagonists, the other being Seth Bullock).
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Roevember is coming! :victory: :cool:

    dispatches from the ex-GOP bunker:

  • Ponderables of SF on screen
    Well, was it a good read? (Your description vaguely reminds me of "aliens" in Peter Watt's Blindsight & Echopraxia novels.) Title and author?
  • Tragedy and Pleasure?
    In sum, Deadwood unflinchingly yet thoughtfully, even sometimes comically, depicts many of the barbarities and injusticies (both documented & inferred) upon which the American frontier was settled-expropriated and which were then buried under thick layers of slick-to-garish façade aka "industrial civilization". The show doesn't deconstruct so much as it performs seances of – exhumes – angry ghosts which "the myth of the Wild West" (e.g. Hollyweird "cowboys & injuns" Western movies) for over a century and a half has helped America collectively forget, much as literary masterpieces like Toni Morrison's novel of the same period Beloved and Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian. The telling is grounded in the historical place, amid a smirl – maelstrom ‐ of historical events, which involve some of people who actually lived and died in 1870s Deadwood. Of course, there are very many creative liberties taken for the sake of televisual drama and the scripted language is a highly stylized patois of gorgeously funny vulgarities that makes the milieu both alien and familiar to contemporary ears. Poetry. Deadwood is as much a place as it is it's own language – a singular achievement for an American television drama.

    Two of my all-time favorite television shows [Deadwood & True Detective]. I need to watch both again soon.
    — 180 Proof
    Why? Do you have a thesis to write?
    Amity
    To wake the Muse ... :smirk:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    I wonder what Ambrose Bierce would have made of all this in his seminal Devil's Dictionary.Benkei
    :smirk:
  • Tragedy and Pleasure?
    Dan dismantle the titty corner and set up a poker table.

    - Al Swearingen
    Tom Storm
    "Ah, Wild Bill ..." :cool:

    Rouse him to spend on pussy, or rob the son of a bitch!

    also

    You can't slit the throat of everyone whose character it would improve.
    — Al Swearengen

    And some more fuckin' words to live by:
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/792330 :death: :flower:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Exactly. The selection of Tim Walz has been publicly supported, afaik, by AOC, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Manchin and a gang of well-known Never/former Trumpers – across the ideological spectrum from far left to center-right (at least). And as a "Bernie Bro" myself, I approve whole heartedly of Walz now that I've reviewed his CV and record as governor & congressman and watched some of his speeches & interviews. The Harris-Walz campaign already seems (feels) to me Obama-Biden 2.0 (even better!)
  • Tragedy and Pleasure?
    Who can account for personal taste? I love Deadwood (it's very funny too)Tom Storm
    Yes it is! :up:

    ... other 'big' TV series like  Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Succession, etc. Well written and performed, but I just don't care about the stories or the characters.
    No fuckin' doubt, Tom, we be a couple of dusty ol' cocksuckers drinkin' from the same crack'd bottle ... like all them other hoopleheads down on their fuckin' luck, laughin' and pissin' it all away in that limey cocksucker Swearengen's saloon. :smirk:

    (Btw, I really liked Rome and enjoyed the slow burn of Six Feet Under and, years later, Westworld & The Expanse. And, of course, True Detective.)
  • Ponderables of SF on screen
    Symmetrical, or two-way, "time travel stories" have never made sense to me science-wise or plot-wise. An unpardonable sin of the e.g. Star Trek & Terminator franchises. Also, just as annoying has been stories with non-relativistic FTL / NAFAL ships & FTL comms-sensors (e.g. "warp drive", "impulse engines", "subspace radio" "hyperspace jumps" ... speed-of-plot space travel / transmissions in general) ever since reading Joe Haldeman's The Forever War in 6th grade (1975) – I'd been an obsessed Trekkie for 4-5 years by then – that had explicitly introduced me to the Einsteinian concept of 'time-dilation'. :yikes:

    Most (sci-fantasy space opera-ish) handwavium gets a pass from me but the howlers above (along with the typical Hollyweird melodramatic / action-for-action-sake plot-holes & idiot-plots) still push my nerdrage buttons. :sweat:
  • US Election 2024 (All general discussion)
    Terrible pick. Kam[ala Harris] just blunted the momentum of her terrific last two weeks, and breathed new life into the Trump/Vance campaign.fishfry
    :clap: :rofl: