:100:Currently not understanding exactly how matter and energy interact to create a subjective experience does not negate the observed fact that matter and energy can interact to make a subjective experience. — Philosophim
:ok: Riiiiight, the whole thread failed "to read that paragraph properly". The phrase "evolutionary scale" doesn't have anything to do with natural selection since there is no telos at work in nature. Anyway, invicta, I take your lack of response to my post as your concession to the points made by me and the others cited there. :smirk:The apex of creation was followed by “evolutionary scale” if you two bothered to read that paragraph properly. No theological assumptions granted there. — invicta
:fire: :100:The constants of nature are ratios or balances. So they are “fundamental numbers” that emerge from processes in opposition.
The take home is that physics sounds reductionist to most ears, but it is actually structuralist in its metaphysics.
Reality is neither fundsmentally classical, nor even quantum. These are just the two matched limit state descriptions ... — apokrisis
'Man as apex-predator', yeah okay. No amount of "creationist" dogma, however, changes the fact that the human genome is more than 96% identical with the chimpanzee genome. We're just bald, locquacious (i.e. proselytizing, sermonizing, bloviating) primates in the animal kingdom. Oh yeah, our uniquely distinguishing superpower is that we're a knowledge-creating species; however, it's the knowledge, not us human primates, which is "separate and above" the animal kingdom. Human history "red in tooth and claw" provides the most graphic and repetitious testimony that humans are beasts not angels, inseparable from the animal kingdom, not "above" it. Also, Plato's Euthyphro is instructive as a cautionary tale about unsound reasoning from supernatural premises about "good and bad". :monkey:... the role of man as the apex of creation ... — invicta
:up: :up:I think humans are clever animals who use language to manage their environment. I see no reason to theologize humans or utilize categories like 'apex of creation...' — Tom Storm
:fire:We don't have an "animalistic side" -- we are all animal--animals descended from animals.
Our best selves may have flourished when we were wandering hunter-gatherers. Being civilized for several thousand years doesn't seem to have civilized us all that much. — BC
Just the opposite – what in the opening sentence of my last post isn't clear ...Are you saying that these are examples of the 'ruses or delusions' by which humans deny their own inevitable decay? — Wayfarer
... my use of [Buddhist ideas] as a metaphor from outside of the scientific worldview (re: entropy)? — 180 Proof
Are you asking about (a) Buddhist tradition or my use of it as a metaphor from outside of the scientific worldview (re: entropy)? If the latter, consider my post again, especially the second paragraph:To what end, though? — Wayfarer
That's quite uncharitable ... in light of what I wrote (also follow the embedded link):All you're saying wisdom consists of is resigning yourself to the inevitable natural fact of death and decay, isn't it?
is what I am "saying wisdom consists of".... striving to reduce foolery (& stupidity) seeks to align expectations with reality as an adaptive habit ... — 180 Proof
Neither. I think as a species we are inherently deluded – an organic alchemy of cognitive biases, maladaptive habits & akrasia – homo insapiens. 'Moral ramifications', I suppose, are a fallout from both our individual and collective struggles with – for and against – our delusions.... as to man’s nature are we inherently bad or good ? Or perhaps we are both ? — invicta
No. More so: anicca-anatta.Would you consider the possibility that this 'inherent disorder' is what is designated by 'avidya' (ignorance) in Buddhist and Hindu philosophy? — Wayfarer
Is that so? Well, in other related dharmic traditions, I understand that it is 'detachment from the psychological habit of permanence' (e.g. anicca-anatta) that facilitates 'liberation'.And that in those schools of traditional philosophy, it is precisely detachment from the imperatives of nature that provides the pathway to liberation (mokṣa, Nirvāṇa)?
You would know better than I, Wayfarer. I only raised 'Buddhism' as a speculative resemblance to, or psychological recognition of, to the fact of entropy – inherent disorder-ing – and the implications of denying, or ignoring, it (i.e. avidya).Whereas the identification with 'what decays and passes away' (in their terms) binds to the 'wheel of saṃsāra' (detachment from same being the aim of 'daily spiritual practice').
Sorry but :rofl: ...In the 20th century, Quantum physics undermined some of the basic assumptions of Classical Physics, by discovering that Nature does not present absolute Truth, but statistical Uncertainty. — Gnomon
:up:The neurology literature is full of examples of the disassociation of the conscious self from the awareness, experience and perception of the organism, blind sight is merely one example. — prothero
No.180 Proof
Do you think there is any progress offered by labelling 'consciousness' a system? — universeness
Perhaps Adorno interpreted the anarchic protests of the student movement as agitating for 'universities to be administered by student groups (councils) at the expense of bourgeois, ivory tower, tenured scholars'.What is particularly fascinating and at first glance puzzling about this is that he identifies the wild, empty, and irrational pseudo-activity of the students with the increasing “technocratization of the university”. What could he have meant? — Jamal
4) Property Dualism (there are complementary ways of describing an entity as 'conscious' or 'extended' or both) ...Either:
1) Panpsychism (everything is conscious)
or
2) Emergentism (of some kind) (some things are conscious)
or
3) Eliminativism (nothing is conscious) — bert1
I think without a clear, precise conception (or theory) of "consciousness", saying "isn't consciousness" doesn't actually say anything; ergo, at best, the so-called "hard problem" is underdetermined.No, the hard problem exists if we start with something (anything) that isn't consciousness, and try to explain consciousness in terms of that. — bert1
The "trick" is the belief that a placebo "cures" an ailment without active medicinal ingredients (ergo the placebo effect). Ignoring symptoms, however comforting, only allows the untreated ailment to get worse. IME, religion is mostly used as a placebo – consolation – for existential dread as well as cultural and/or historical and/or scientific ignorance (i.e. phobias & bigotries).If religions and spiritualities confer peace of mind to a person, that has some net positive effect on their relationship to their body and thus the functioning of their body/it's health. No tricks, just reason. — Benj96
:up: :up:So science will not replace religion. But it would be an excellent development if ethics did. — Banno
:cool: :up:I won't try and summarise the already succinct Aeon article (which describes itself as being "only in bare outline"). However, what I found most fascinating is the idea that qualia constitute the self, rather than being something perceived by the self. — Luke
:up:There are many possibilities for category error and reification. — Janus
:pray: Let's hope not.Might science absorb values, ethics, and morals from religions? — Art48
IME, science is to experimental medicines as religion is to ritual placebos/nocebos. The latter tricks many into ignoring their symptoms whereas the former contributes to the health of most. However, philosophy – what we do with (or practice) either of them – often promotes 'proper diet & exercise' as a daily fitness regime – "a way of life" – which cultivates / reinforces flourishing (i.e. well-being).Or might science somehow evolve to address the concerns and questions traditionally addressed by religion?
Just as astronomy has not replaced astrology, planetology has not replaced flat earthism, evolution has not replaced creationism and cognitive neuroscience has not replaced spiritualism (i.e. belief in ghosts/souls), I suspect modern technosciences will never totally replace supernatural religions as such. :eyes: :mask:Science will never eventually replace religion. — Benj96
It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God - but to create him. — Arthur C. Clarke