The myth of the metals in the Republic is called a "noble lie".

The muses tell Hesiod that they speak lies like the truth (Theogony 27) — Fooloso4

:up: :flower:

Related to muses there is also another interesting fact: there are no Muses of plastic arts (painting, sculpture, architecture), or of philosophy.
This must mean that the myth of the Muses was finalized before the advent of philosophy or of significant stone architecture.

Nevertheless, it is true that we use the word "Muse" to refer to a person (commonly female) who inspire us to make art.

We can see a good example in this paint which is called: The Sacred Grove, Beloved of the Arts and the Muses. They are represented by some artists with a connection to Ancient Greece or Greek philosophy.

What a great topic, thank you. — Cuthbert

:up: :yum:

I imagine archaeologists of the future finding the statue of Eros in Picadilly Circus and saying "Look, Londoners still believed in the ancient Greek gods!" — Cuthbert

Fortunately! I think this is the path we should to keep. Never forget where art, literature, myths, philosophy come from. One of our duties is to maintain those "proofs" of their existence.

He also said the world is full of gods. Just as we know there is no Eros and still put up a statue to him. — Cuthbert

Yes! But Thales tended to be more argumentative than poets or "story tellers" who spread the myth in Ancient Greece.
At least one of the main skills towards Thales was their ability to justify his thoughts rather than to put up everything as pure affirmative or "true"

Well, yes. I also think that the paper I shared fails to put mythopoetic in epistemology. But I didn't pretend to claim that I was agree with the author but the simple fact to consider how interesting other perspectives on this issue are.

Their effectiveness lies, at least in part, in providing beliefs that are taken by the listener to be true. Rather than validated true belief, Timaeus, in his own works, gives us "likely stories (ton eikota mython)". — Fooloso4

Exactly. As I typed above, myths tend to be self-justifying. The inspirations and beliefs about Gods or heroes are enough to ensure their validity without a basic argumentation.

Part of differences between myth an philosophy have to do with the transition of an oral tradition wherein myth originated, to a written tradition — ChatteringMonkey

That's a very good point, indeed. I wasn't aware of the process of transition. It is another big difference we have to consider of. It is true that (as you explained with the link you provided) the sense of the reading is clearly different. If we read a myth it sounds so poetic but if we check a Plato's work it gives other feelings.

The question of why Plato used mythopoesis is interesting. — Fooloso4

Yes, it is :up:

You already shared a link where that topic was discussed. Nevertheless, I found another paper who looks so interesting and I think it is worthy to attach it here: The Mythopoetic Mind of Plato: The Kingdom-Sage’s Muthos in Timaeus, The Republic, and The Symposium (Parts III & IV)

I found in the paper a very important quote about Plato: The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. by Alfred North Whitehead, Process and Reality, p. 53 [Free Press, 1969]; the painting is the School of Athens.

I think it could be important to consider Plato as the real evolution of mythopoeic.

Thanks for sharing. I am completely fool for forgetting Plato's work. Yes, he is essential to mythopoeic.

Stunningly perfect 'Einstein ring' captured by James Webb Space Telescope

I'm retiring to my aesthetic cave — Noble Dust

Enjoy your retreat, friend. Art can only be understood in loneliness. :flower:
May this song follow you, how you well taught me! :sparkle:

This is all to say that the deeply wise and invaluable practices (such as Alchemy) from our human and non-human ancestors have not been forgotten. In fact, their resurgence is guaranteed. — Bret Bernhoft

"Non-human" ancestors appeared again in another OP of yours but you didn't explain who are our non-human ancestors yet. So, if you pretend guarantee their resurgence it is better to start explaining who are those.

Personally I’m done trying to “define art”. My only interest is in whether a piece stirs something in me, makes me think differently, or makes me feel an emotion that i don’t feel every day. This piece did none of those things. — Noble Dust

:clap: :100:

So, by what definition is this art? — T Clark

As Noble Dust explained previously, it is necessary to makes us feel an emotion that we don't usually feel. After seeing the paint I don't feel anything. To be honest, when I saw I thought: "it looks like an old video game"
In the other hand, it is also true that the basic concept of art has changed so much that is even blurred. It is difficult to consider what is art in nowadays...

I think religious discussion can be as heated as political discussion — universeness

Agreed. These topics tend to be taken so personal from some users because those tend to defend their arguments and doctrines at any price.

Ok! I understand what you mean now. You try to elaborate or create something related as a new categories inside the threads, right?
I mean, whenever you start a thread you have to choose different categories to fit your new discussion. You propose a new category for "reading groups"
For me it is so interesting, indeed. Probably we can put up there discussions like "Thus spoke Zarathustra" or "Emmanuel Kant readings" etc... instead of trying to put them in specific categories such as "Metaphysics" "Epistemology" "Philosophy of religion" etc...

Recently, it was pointed out that 'book discussions are difficult to carry out in this forum'.
That is certainly true. — Amity

Well, to be honest with you I think book discussion are easier to carry out rather than political ones. Since I've been in the forum I took part in a lot of threads related to books. My OP's are even influenced by Mishima works and I never noticed big issues during the debate. I mean, the answers adjusted to the nature of the books.

Would it make book discussions easier, if there was a stickie with a clear and specific guideline? — Amity

What do you mean? Do you want a discussion related to linguistics rather than philosophy?

Yet how many years have there been this idea of that the European Union is finished? Or China is finished?

The fact is, country simply aren't finished. They can have a huge crisis, but they aren't finished. I think even Sri Lanka isn't finished. Even Somalia isn't finished, it seems to just hang on there... somehow. And actually, might be more than just hanging on. — ssu

:up: :100:

South Korea is another good example about how a country is never really finished and they can flourish from the ashes!

Pedro Sánchez is the current secretary of socialist party and yes, as you said he got into the power due to replacements. It amazes me his ability to survive each year inside Spanish politics because it seems nobody likes him but he stills remain in power.
He even wrote a book about this skill which is literally named as manual of resistance

There are other sectors of society which call him Mr. Handsome or Prince Pedro

Here we see him talking with (supposedly) his successor in the leftists: Yolanda Díaz.

Current Spanish PM:



Previous PM:



Minister of public order and prisons :death: :yikes:

Minister of Agriculture: — Baden

Irish potatoes, yummy :yum:

I keep reading to the master of masters.

After the Banquet, Yukio Mishima.

Death in Midsummer and Other Stories, Yukio Mishima.

Now that we know better how genetics work, don't you think heterosexuality should have a kind of social advantage because of the fact that they re the ones transferring their ADN to their children? Or you think this does not make any difference?

Good point but I think it depends on the perspective. There are some people who think it is not worthy to have kids at all.

The video scandal might say something, but she has shown the political inexperience in other ways too. I would grade her as a mediocre+ politician, not a stellar one. — ssu

Completely agreed :100:

Yet, if you read the news, it doesn't look all that bad, but who trusts the media these days? — Agent Smith

Agreed. News and media are in their worst time. They spread lies without any type of consideration. I no longer trust on journalism and I feel sceptical about all the news which come from China or Xi Jinping

Potential of Chaos :
"The modern idea of chaos—something totally without order and seemingly disruptive by nature—was formed during Roman times.
Before that, the Greek Chaos (Khaos) was understood as a gap filled with fertile potential from which everything and anything could come." — Gnomon

So interesting, indeed. :up: :100:

Yet I think a more pressing issue is that this administration is spending like crazy, trying to stimulate things when there is rampant inflation going on — ssu

Well, yes here is another big problem. Apart from being immature it turns out that she is not even a good representative. Everything is connected with this debate. If she had any sense of basic responsibility she would be a better PM.
But the footage shows what she really is: incompatible for her charge.
"Dancing" and "partying" while the rampant inflation goes on :yikes:
What triggers me the most is the fact that these politicians do not resign. They still remain in the power looking like if nothing happened at all.

Can anybody notice a trend here from the pictures? — ssu

You are right! There is clearly a trend in selecting beautiful women.

Maybe I have be a bit "brainwashed" by western media, but I kind of find it hard to imagine Xi Jinping as a kind of nice/benevolent leader when he is constantly making threats at any and all countries who are not willing to any and all things he wants them to do. It is one thing to bully your own people around, it is another when you think it is "ok" to bully people who are not citizens of your own country. — dclements

It is a very complex context. To answer your opinion we have to understand Chinese history previously. Just as a brief reminder of how the Western world disrespected China and Chinese culture during XIX century and between 1900 - 1930. That dishonour still remains in the conciousness of CCP because they see their fight against the West as an act of empowering Chinese traditions and integrity.
On the other hand... I am not trying to defend Xi Jinping but to understand the situation of China in Asian thought not in my European perspective. Because as I said previously it is more complex than just say: "they are not a democracy so they are bad and bla bla bla..."
Well... what if this political context is the only which fits in Chinese administration? Imagine that you have to rule over 1.5 billion of citizens. Crazy right? Well they use rectitude mixed with Maoism in these cases.

Rectitude? Following the principles of Confucianism and Taoism? I disagree with your assessment of Xi Jinping and those following him. — dclements

He literally holds a PhD on Confucianism. Also, he wrote a book about the administration of China which is clearly influenced by those philosophical doctrines: The Governance of China.
This work is also related to: Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung inside the context of the so called "cultural revolution"

Mature Maoist period (1935–1940)

Intellectually, this was Mao's most fruitful time. The shift of orientation was apparent in his pamphlet Strategic Problems of China's Revolutionary War (December 1936). This pamphlet tried to provide a theoretical veneer for his concern with revolutionary practice. Mao started to separate from the Soviet model since it was not automatically applicable to China. China's unique set of historical circumstances demanded a correspondingly unique application of Marxist theory, an application that would have to diverge from the Soviet approach.

After Mao Zedong's death

The Chinese economic reform or reform and opening-up, known in the West as the opening of China, is the program of economic reforms termed "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" and "socialist market economy" in the People's Republic of China (PRC). Led by Deng Xiaoping, often credited as the "General Architect", the reforms were launched by reformists within the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) on December 18, 1978, during the "Boluan Fanzheng" period. The reforms went into stagnation after the military crackdown on 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, but were revived after Deng Xiaoping's Southern Tour in 1992. In 2010, China overtook Japan as the world's second-largest economy by nominal GDP and in 2017 overtook the United States by becoming the world's largest economy by GDP (PPP)

China is and will never be done. They survived the revolution of Mao, the starvation crisis of 60's, and the financial problems of the 80's and 90's. Sooner or later they end up searching a solution for the problems. We should not say "they will not last this decade". It is extreme. Keep in mind that despite they are not a democracy at least the National People's Congress is responsible. This is why they always survived from all the problems: Because their philosophy is being courageous in hard times and the principles points of Confucianism and Taoism. These doctrines are centuries years old they still remain.
Xi Jinping has something that no Western leader does: Rectitude.

We are living in a very complex scenario. Ukraine is at war, the prices are raising, unemployment increasing, and the world is getting divided as in the cold war. I guess (yes, I know I sound boring) what we should expect from our politicians is at least some righteousness. A Prime Minister is not a regular or ordinary citizen. She literally represents Finland and promotes some laws which are voted in the Parliament. Thus, she has a lot of power. Then, she has a lot of responsibility on their shoulders.
It is not fair or correct to party as a teenager instead of working hard 24/7. If you think this is "extreme" you are not able to be a politician with power because it seems not everybody is capable to be such an important person.

Imagine this scenario with Joe Biden or Scholz in Germany. It would be disgusting as hell... Everybody suffering from the gas and oil prices crisis and those politicians having fun... It is not correct to me.

Moses is supposed to be Israelite. But yes, according to the period of his existence he was Egyptian.

Moses' Hebrew mother, Jochebed, secretly hid him when Pharaoh ordered all newborn Hebrew boys to be killed in order to reduce the population of the Israelites. Through Pharaoh's daughter (identified as Queen Bithia in the Midrash), the child was adopted as a foundling from the Nile and grew up with the Egyptian royal family

Translation please. — Agent Smith

"[Moses] said, I have been a stranger in a strange land."

Si comprehendis, non est Deus! — Agent Smith

:eyes:

Dicens, advena fui in terra aliena.
[Moses] :flower: :ok:

My position on these matters is: "Avoid major damage or harm". — Alkis Piskas

:up: :fire:

Death" is not harmful to one when one is dead. Also, insofar as life has "intrinsic value", it is manifest only in the living and only recognized by the living — 180 Proof

:up: :100:

I conclude, then, that the harmfulness of death is mainly post mortem. — Bartricks

If this is real we just discovered that we still have awareness afterwards of death. Here is where I disagree with your arguments.
There always been a lot philophers, thinkers, writers, artists, etc... who understood death as the real nothingness or "Nirvana" (Buddhism). They even killed themselves trying to find specifically that scenario: the lack of awareness.
If you say harmfulness of death is mainly post mortem you are forced to accept the premise that we still maintain conciousness when we are dead...

What explains suicide then? — Agent Smith

Exactly. I had the same question in my mind whenever I finished the read.

What about earthquakes, drought, famine, disease, childhood cancer, etc.? — Art48

Natural disasters which are suffered by people. Those catastrophes represent the randomly of life. Some experiences it and others don't.

We're living in an era of secular tyranny. — baker

There always been tyranny from the rulers or statemen. Nevertheless, I still maintain my opinion that a public representative should behave according to righteousness. I guess this issue is not based on her parties but the fact she is the PM. If she would be a random person nobody would care at all.

. If God exists and has created the world, then he approves of all this killing, raping, and pillaging. It's how he wants things to be. Anything that proposes to tbe "the genuine word of God" needs to reflect that. — baker

Well the theists always use the same argument in that context: God is not guilty of human's free will. :rofl:

US is stuck in a rutt, and the stakes are tightening. Fascism and commusism are on the rise — Merkwurdichliebe

You never lived Fascism and communism as we did here in Europe.

The Banzai charge was a rather unsuccessful war strategy — universeness

You are wrong, but I respect your opinion as much as I respect all the integrity of Japanese soldiers defending the honour of Hirohito

From where I'm sitting, the most important "problem" facing humanity is a lack of inner awareness. — Bret Bernhoft

Completely agree :100: :up: