But what work is the word 'existential' doing? — Bartricks
In Sartre's terms values make demands on us, yet we must choose which of those demands we will meet. So we live with the results of those choices. Hence, commitment then becomes the basis for authenticity. — Banno
There is no escape from choosing and no escape from the consequences of making choices. That's existentialism in a nutshell for me — 180 Proof
You will always have to live with yourself. — Moliere
Find out what it means to die - not physically, that's inevitable - but to die to everything that is known, to die to your family, to your attachments, to all the things that you have accumulated, the known, the known pleasures, the known fears. Die to that every minute and you will see what it means to die so that the mind is made fresh, young, and therefore innocent, so that there is incarnation not in a next life, but the next day. — Krishnamurti
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. — John 12: 24
I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day! — 1 Corinthians 15: 31
Love and do what you want. If you stop talking, you will stop talking with love; if you shout, you will shout with love; if you correct, you will correct with love. — Augustine
Then I don't see what this thread is about. — Bartricks
But there's no 'ethic' here, inasmuch as it is left open exactly what we are morally obliged to do. The point is just that when the ground of the reason for action is some consideration that is not to do with one's self - not to do with promoting one's own interests - it can qualify as a moral reason. — Bartricks
For Sartre, Marxism. But I think virtue ethics will suffice; a virtue being how we want to be, and hence authenticity remains "living with yourself". — Banno
Is this a discussion on (the pricking of) conscience? What is conscience but the realization that one has done wrong even when one has gotten away with it? The context, sensu amplo, is the perfect murder and the experiences of the murderer, morally and judicially speaking. Is an immoral act a cross to bear, a millstone around the neck, a sword of Damocles vis-à-vis an active, unforgiving, conscience? — Agent Smith
I think it could be, in that "the pricking of conscience" is a common way people make ethical decisions -- you mentioning murder makes me think of Raskolnikov, who was clearly overly bothered by the existential situation and took it to an extreme -- I wonder if the fear holds up? If there is no God, is everything permitted? Did Raskolnikov actually demonstrate our freedom to murder, or did he demonstrate the opposite? It's not like he lived a happy life — Moliere
I didn't do it. No one saw me do it. You can't prove anything. — Bart Simpson
Rather, it seems the existentialist wants us to be who we are rather than conform to an image of who I am, in accord with a role with such-and-such responsibilities and privileges. — Moliere
Or, being who they aren't? funny thing here -- if who we are is what we do, then whatever we do we are who we are, but there is the theme of authenticity -- we can be ourselves authentically or inauthentically. For Heidegger he seemed to contrast authenticity with everydayness or being busy. — Moliere
if we include Levinas, then I'd say he actually manages to escape the charge of selfishness or individuality, given that we only come to know ourselves as ethical beings within the face-to-face relationship of the Other. — Moliere
You should never be here too much; be so far away that they can’t find you, they can’t get at you to shape, to mold. Be so far away, like the mountains, like the unpolluted air; be so far away that you have no parents, no relations, no family, no country; be so far away that you don’t know even where you are. Don’t let them find you; don’t come into contact with them too closely. Keep far away where even you can’t find yourself; keep a distance which can never be crossed over; keep a passage open always through which no one can come. Don’t shut the door for there is no door, only an open, endless passage; if you shut any door, they will be very close to you, then you are lost. Keep far away where their breath can’t reach you and their breath travels very far and very deeply; don’t get contaminated by them, by their word, by their gesture, by their great knowledge; they have great knowledge but be far away from them where even you cannot find yourself.
For they are waiting for you, at every corner, in every house to shape you, to mold you, to tear you to pieces and then put you together in their own image. Their gods, the little ones and the big ones, are the images of themselves, carved by their own mind or by their own hands. They are waiting for you, the churchman and the Communist, the believer and the non-believer, for they are both the same; they think they are different but they are not for they both brainwash you, till you are of them, till you repeat their words, till you worship their saints, the ancient and the recent; they have armies for their gods and for their countries and they are experts in killing. Keep far away but they are waiting for you, the educator and the businessman; one trains you for the others to conform to the demands of their society, which is a deadly thing;* they will make you into a scientist, into an engineer, into an expert of almost anything from cooking to architecture to philosophy. — Krishnamurti's Notebook
Fair. "Living with yourself..." includes Sartre and Trump. Both of them lived with the decisions. And regardless of the facts, philosophically speaking we can see them both as paragons of how they wanted to be. — Moliere
This idea makes me think of personal integrity. Do you also see the connection?you *should* consider that you'll always be with yourself. — Moliere
...insofar that you are authentically a sociopath you can continue to live with yourself, or live authentically. — Moliere
is insufficient. being moral must include not just recognition of the existence of competing needs but a commitment to satisfying the needs of the other as well as oneself. Hence Trump must be a solipsist, ultimately lonely.We can call ourselves moral by committing to something other than ourselves. — Moliere
Yes, I could say that. But I wouldn't call it a "consideration", which refers to something to take into account, i.e. a thought a fact or any element that one uses to make a decision about something. I see integrity as an ethical state and practice in which a person shows consistent and uncompromising adherence to (his) ethical standards. This is what "integral" means: whole. We also have the term "integer" in Math, which means a whole number, not a fraction.in a way you could say that personal integrity comes before all other considerations -- including others, as has been pointed out here. — Moliere
personal integrity. — Alkis Piskas
But surely morality is primarily about others, not oneself? — Bartricks
I'd love to be proven wrong about this though. — Agent Smith
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.