Wouldn't choice simply be 'one instead of the other'?
Well, you are what you are, instead of what you aren't.
That's a choice.
You don't have to be aware of what you could be and what you aren't, to be what you are.
You just are - it's a choice without intent — Shamshir
That would mean everything is everything, which funnily enough makes it - everything it is and is not, so it amounts to everything."everything is what it is and not some other thing" — NKBJ
Technically, every desire bringing about discontentment with the self, sets one on the path to not be oneself.
Obviously, even during this process, you're you; of a sort. — Shamshir
Technically not, because who I am is not who I was; and yet, who I was, when I was, is who I am.You are ALWAYS yourself, because you cannot be anything but yourself. — NKBJ
Free will that is controlled, is bond; it is not free.And when we're talking about freewill, an unconscious "choice" is definitely not a "freewill" choice, because it was entirely out of your control. — NKBJ
And then on what basis are you deciding things? If you make choices absent any good reasoning, or just absent any cause, are they really choices? Wouldn't that make them random? — NKBJ
As far as I can tell, the definition of "random" is "proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern." So, an uncaused freewill would fall right in that category.
I'm afraid I cannot come up with a way to think about an entirely uncaused freewill that doesn't fit the definition of random. This is why I think it's necessary to rethink what we mean by the term "freewill." — NKBJ
Am I making sense? — TheMadFool
No. But that's the consequence of trying to do away with reason, which I guess is your choice. — NKBJ
You probably can do that too but, of course, you won't. — TheMadFool
Aw, thanks, I take that as a compliment! — NKBJ
And if you posit some "uncaused" essence of yourself...well, I think that would be invoking some theological/mystical/magical concepts that I personally am not willing to concede. — NKBJ
Why are you not addressing the biasing idea? — Terrapin Station
Astronomy (the science) evolved from astrology (the superstition). Flying machines were once mythical. I guess I'm saying the alternative to determinism, the uncaused, needn't be mystical/magical. — TheMadFool
Because I'm not sure I follow what you even mean by it, how you think it would work, or that it's relevant. But if you elucidate more clearly what it is, I will do my best to address it. — NKBJ
I concede that it is entirely possible that there is something we do not currently understand that seems mystical now but could be considered scientific fact someday. However, with the multitude of things that would fall into that category, I hope you'll understand that until that day, I will continue to think of them as mystical — NKBJ
So the idea is that there might be some way to bias probabilities willfully (where we don't know the exact mechanism for this yet), and that could happen dynamically, too. This biasing would be control over the decision. — Terrapin Station
However, even if I entertain the hypothetical for a moment, I'm not sure how it answers my concern that being uncaused, this conception of "freewill" is actually not under our control, and as such may be "free" but has nothing to do with "will." It seems that it would lead to the idea that, whether the odds are 50/50 or 99/1, there is an uncontrollable "force" (I can't come up with a better word. Maybe you have suggestions?) that is directing my actions apart from what I may actually want or think is wise. — NKBJ
If you can bias the odds, you're controlling them, and as we make a decision, we'd push the bias to 100% (at the point of decision). — Terrapin Station
You're causing it ultimately, yes, where that's not deterministic. — Terrapin Station
On what basis are you causing it? I mean, why are you choosing A over B? — NKBJ
Depends on the scenario. It's not as if it's just one way that we choose things, and sometimes we basically do it by whim or "randomly." — Terrapin Station
If you're just doing it by whim or randomly, I don't see how you can call it "controlled" by anyone. — NKBJ
It's controlled by you, since you're choosing it by whim. — Terrapin Station
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