We're going around in circles. I simply don't see how you could call something that's a random whim under your control. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. — NKBJ
Whose or "what's" whim is it? Who or what is doing something by whim? — Terrapin Station
That's just the thing--in your hypothetical, it doesn't matter really. You're not using any part of "you" to make the decision, you're just acting. — NKBJ
You're in control of it, because it's an action that you take. — Terrapin Station
There are many examples of actions that you can theoretically take without actually being "in control." Like, when you sleepwalk, or are under the influence of some kind of "truth serum," or are being hypnotized, or have a disease like Tourette's Syndrome, etc etc.
In all these examples we would say that the person is not "in control," because they are not able to access their reasoning skills to willfully direct their actions. — NKBJ
But there's nothing about being in control of something that implies reasoning. — Terrapin Station
We're talking about an example where they're intentionally performing an action--choosing something per whim. — Terrapin Station
That's question-begging, imho. — NKBJ
On what basis is a person intending to do something on a whim? Even having the impetus to a whim is a cause. — NKBJ
I'm getting the impression that you never choose anything on a whim, by the way. Which seems weird to me. — Terrapin Station
Do you just mean that you believe that being in control does imply reasoning? Why would you believe that? — Terrapin Station
actually products of my subconscious desires — NKBJ
Because otherwise I have no basis for choosing one mediocre 70's band over another. How do I then stop myself from listening to, *shudder* Glen Campbell? — NKBJ
What would reasoning have to do with that, and how would this imply anything about whether control necessarily involves reasoning? — Terrapin Station
Aside from that, I love Glen Campbell, by the way. ;-) — Terrapin Station
Seems to me that if we just choose things on unreasoned whims, then we would constantly be doing unpredictable things. — NKBJ
I didn't type and I'm not saying anything even remotely near "We make all choices per whim." I wrote, " [It] Depends on the scenario. It's not as if it's just one way that we choose things, and sometimes we basically do it by whim or 'randomly.'" — Terrapin Station
Seems to me that if we just choose things on unreasoned whims, then we would constantly be doing unpredictable things.Take someone really close to you, whom you know very well: if they do something totally out of character, you don't typically say "oh, I guess that was just his "whim" taking over!" you wonder what the causes were that brought this action about. And, depending on the action, you may be more or less concerned about their mental state. — NKBJ
This sucks because now I'm having to rehash really straightforward stuff that I already typed. — Terrapin Station
Take someone really close to you, whom you know very well: if they do something totally out of character, you don't typically say "oh, I guess that was just his "whim" taking over!" you wonder what the causes were that brought this action about. And, depending on the action, you may be more or less concerned about their mental state. — NKBJ
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.