I don’t think all biological men should be excluded from women’s bathrooms, changing rooms, or shelters. I — Michael
Cisgender men, sure — Michael
I think no man is a woman. — Malcolm Parry
Trans activists fucked up. — frank
Agreed.
And honestly, I find it hard to wrap my head around the absolute shit tsunami of suffering that has been created by all of these invasive medications and procedures on children who may very well have been 'going through a phase'.
In a hundred years, people will be looking back at this in the same way we look back at lobotomies and witch burnings - like we are primitive savages. Perhaps we are. — Tzeentch
But as I mentioned before, the terms “man” and “woman” are not only used to refer to biological sex; they are also used to refer to gender identity. — Michael
You can repeat this mantra as much as you like. — Malcolm Parry
It’s not a mantra. It’s an accurate description of the English language. The nouns “man” and “woman” are not each just used in a single way. — Michael
They can dictate who is allowed to do what, but that’s not what’s being discussed — Michael
That is exactly what is being discussed because that is the only thing that matters — Malcolm Parry
We’re not discussing what is allowed. We’re discussing what ought be allowed. — Michael
The English noun “man” only means “biological man” and the English noun “woman” only means “biological woman” — Michael
I’m not saying anything about what words should mean.
I’m saying that:
1) the English noun “man” doesn’t just mean “biologically male”, and
2) transgender men ought be allowed to use men’s bathrooms
Do you understand that these are two completely independent claims and that (1) is simply a descriptive fact about how English speakers speak? — Michael
1) English noun “man” does mean biologically male in the dictionary I use. — Malcolm Parry
"transgender man" being a meaningful phrase in the English language. And sometimes "man" means "human". — Michael
Transgender man is a transgender man. Not a man. — Malcolm Parry
A human is a human. He or she can be a man or woman. — Malcolm Parry
I’m not sure what you are trying to prove. — Malcolm Parry
That the word "man" doesn't just mean "biologically male". I've been very clear on this. — Michael
Remember the uproar when Rachel Dolezal, a white women, identified herself (or tried to) as black? That didn't sit well with a lot of people. — RogueAI
Now, I’m liberal, but to a degree
I want ev’rybody to be free
But if you think that I’ll let Barry Goldwater
Move in next door and marry my daughter
You must think I’m crazy!
I wouldn’t let him do it for all the farms in Cuba — Bob Dylan
But a man is a biological male. — Malcolm Parry
I’m still not sure what you are trying to prove. — Malcolm Parry
That the word “man” doesn’t just mean “a biological male”. How many times do I need to repeat this? — Michael
I'm still not sure what you are trying too prove. — Malcolm Parry
The phrase “goodwill to all men” from the Bible does not mean “goodwill to all biological males”. It means “goodwill to all people”.
Some words mean more than one thing. The word “bat” can refer to a flying mammal or it can refer to a type of club used in baseball or cricket. The word “man” can refer to a biological male or it can refer to any human. — Michael
The fact that I have to keep repeating this clearly shows that you have reading or comprehension problems. I can’t help you any further. — Michael
What is your point? — Malcolm Parry
My understanding of what you are doing is expressing a cultural value that was formerly implicit due to the absence of a trans discourse, but you would like to be explicitly accepted in opposition to this new discourse. It seems then that you and your interlocutors have different values that you would like to be discursively dominant. As it stands, the idea of gender being separate to biological sex is dominant in most developed countries. Everyone has a right to openly argue for their discursive preferences, but that dominance can be demonstrated as an institutional fact. E.g. Webster's and the Oxford dictionary, recognize gender as having a legitimate meaning that can oppose biological sex.
All I am saying here is that a focus on arguing for your values would seem more productive than denying an institutional social reality. — Baden
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