Our language is made up of many kinds of beliefs that can be called foundational or even bedrock, but not all foundational beliefs have the same structural significance...
What is the structure? — Sam26
Our language is made up of many kinds of beliefs that can be called foundational or even bedrock, but not all foundational beliefs have the same structural significance...
What is the structure? — Sam26
I thought the same thing when I read that. Language is made up of many kinds of letters and words, not beliefs. Minds are made of beliefs, but beliefs aren't the foundation of minds. There are the brute sensory experiences that are the structure of our beliefs and the root cause of changing (restructuring) our beliefs.In other words: since beliefs are propositional attitudes, I consider them to be a component of mind, not language. — Galuchat
"Brains in a vat" is an external world scenario, thereby language would still have it's uses in such a world. — Harry Hindu
Fair enough.If you were familiar with Wittgenstein's bedrock propositions in his notes called On Certainty, you would know that I'm not asking the question that you are answering. This is not a linguistics class, at least not a typical linguistics class. — Sam26
Describing the shadows on the wall of a cave will never give you a satisfactory understanding of your surroundings no matter how sophisticated you are able to formulate your description of them. — ovdtogt
What is the structure? — Sam26
I don't see shadows. What I see is much more detailed than shadows. — Harry Hindu
It seems to me that a more fundamental belief in the kind that Sam26 is trying to get at would be the belief that there is an external world. You need that as the foundation before you can build a structural understanding of what language even is. The idea of language is built on the idea that there is an external world with other minds, and that my mind is a representation of that world including how human being communicate. Language would have no foundation to stand on if there wasn't the foundational idea of an external world, for what purpose would language serve to a solipsist? How would the idea even come about in a solipsist mind? — Harry Hindu
It seems to me that a more fundamental belief in the kind that Sam26 is trying to get at would be the belief that there is an external world. — Harry Hindu
If belief is prior to language, than it exists in it's entirety before our awareness of it. — creativesoul
That's probably the case. However, others become aware of these kinds of prelinguistic beliefs by observation, but only if they have the concept of belief. In other words, it's backward looking, it only happens, that I can say there are prelinguistic beliefs, from the perspective of language. It's only in language that we can talk about such beliefs. This causes confusion — Sam26
...if a person has not yet got the concepts, I'll teach him to use the words by means of examples and by exercises - And when I do this, I do not communicate less to him that I know myself. In the course of this teaching, I'll show him the same colours, the same lengths, the same shapes...For example I'll teach him to continue an ornamental patter 'uniformly' when told to do so. - And also to continue progressions. — Witt P.I. 208
these most basic of beliefs (states-of-mind) are not revealed linguistically, but are revealed in our actions (remember I'm talking prelinguistic beliefs) — Sam26
For myself I think 'prelinguistic' is a red herring, though I know many are wedded to it. Instead I feel that it's a mistake to distinguish the linguistic from action. To use or interpret language is to act, it's not an alternative to action. — mcdoodle
It seems to me that people can display knowledge without saying so. I know that you know how to tie your shoes by me observing you tie your shoes. No words need to be spoken. From this observation I can see that you have a belief about shoes and their laces being tied. Only if I never observed you tying your shoes would it be relevant to say so. Observing you tying your shoes and you saying that you know how to tie your shoes would be redundant information.That's probably the case. However, others become aware of these kinds of prelinguistic beliefs by observation, but only if they have the concept of belief. In other words, it's backward looking, it only happens, that I can say there are prelinguistic beliefs, from the perspective of language. It's only in language that we can talk about such beliefs. This causes confusion. — Sam26
It seems to me that people can display knowledge without saying so — Harry Hindu
Knowledge as a skill is simply applied knowledge as a belief. You can't apply beliefs that you don't have.There is knowledge as a belief, and there is knowledge as a skill. — Sam26
Knowledge as a skill is simply applied knowledge as a belief. — Harry Hindu
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