“Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” — Charles Darwin
What I want to focus on is what I perceive is a claim that complexity evolves from simplicity. — TheMadFool
If this idea that simplicity evolves into complexity is true then what explains the quite obvious fact that humans when engaged in creative acts can never produce something more complex than humans themselves? — TheMadFool
What I want to focus on is what I perceive is a claim that complexity evolves from simplicity. — TheMadFool
If this idea that simplicity evolves into complexity is true then what explains the quite obvious fact that humans when engaged in creative acts can never produce something more complex than humans themselves? All our inventions no matter how advanced are but cheap imitations of nature.
...what explains the quite obvious fact that humans when engaged in creative acts can never produce something more complex than humans themselves? — TheMadFool
If this idea that simplicity evolves into complexity is true then what explains the quite obvious fact that humans when engaged in creative acts can never produce something more complex than humans themselves? All our inventions no matter how advanced are but cheap imitations of nature. — TheMadFool
How do we explain the hard-problem of consciousness — TheMadFool
or our inability to create artificial intelligence and usher in the technological singularity? — TheMadFool
Granted that I may be speaking too soon and we may be able to create something more complex than ourselves in the future but as of the moment our inability to do so contradicts the simplicity evolves into complexity hypothesis. — TheMadFool
cost substantially less energy — alcontali
So the answer to your main point is that we simply cannot afford it. Biology is too cheap and efficient to be contended with in terms of raw complicatedness — VagabondSpectre
In the physical world, you can have simple objects of which their simple, disconnected state is much more probable than when they collectively form a more improbable, complex object. — alcontali
There are more around 37.2 trillion cells in the human body. Perhaps we just don’t have the time. — NOS4A2
But that's not true. — Banno
How? Can you name one man-made object that is more complex than humans? — TheMadFool
A complex system would have many components/parts and the relations between them would also be greater in number. — TheMadFool
I guess I have a very basic conception of the words "simplicity" and "complexity" — TheMadFool
How? Can you name one man-made object that is more complex than humans? — TheMadFool
New York City? Civilization? Liverpool FC? Surely anything that is made up of humans is more complex than just humans? — ZhouBoTong
Even assuming that I cannot name one man-made object that is more complex than humans, you could only achieve have not produce something more complex than humans themselves, not your desired can never produce something more complex than humans themselves. — Banno
It is really just pointing out some confusion on my part as to what exactly you are suggesting with "complex"?? — ZhouBoTong
Reminded me of the oft bandied about but usually misunderstood (count me in) concept of entropy. I guess the difference between a closed and an open system explains the complexity, especially life, we see on earth. — TheMadFool
People believe that simplicity evolves into complexity — TheMadFool
Humans can't create anything more complex than themselves — TheMadFool
If 1 is true then 2 should be false. — TheMadFool
There's a difference between an amateur philosopher and a trained philosopher as an example. — TheMadFool
If you don't want to answer that then can you kindly try and provide a proof for the belief that simplicity leads to complexity or vice versa or perhaps you want to do something else. — TheMadFool
Hence, the answer is that there is no proof possible that simplicity leads to complexity in the physical universe. — alcontali
Am I then to conclude that the belief simplicity leads to complexity is baseless and ergo, logically, to be open to discussion? — TheMadFool
Also I think equlibrium has nothing to do with the issue of simplicity and complexity. — TheMadFool
es equilibrium may describe a relationship between systems but it, as a concept, doesn't form part of the definition of simplicity or complexity. — TheMadFool
Each of these 27 possibilities then have further possible combinations which we can assume to be again in threes. We now have 27 × 27 × 27 = 19683 permutations possible. — TheMadFool
Yes, but most of these permutations are useless for these parts. — alcontali
According to game theory, these parts will only pick those possibilities that substantially improve their own stability. — alcontali
Wouldn't that be against complexity by preventing all possible relationships? — TheMadFool
It is really just pointing out some confusion on my part as to what exactly you are suggesting with "complex"??
— ZhouBoTong
Do you consider deleting features from my understanding of complexity and simplicity or adding other features you think are necessary?
Have a go. — TheMadFool
What is more complex, a cell or a mountain?...why? What is more complex, a human or the large hadron collider?...again, why? — ZhouBoTong
How would one go about defining the terms "simplicity" and "complexity"?
The usual interpretation of the difference between simplicity and complexity seems to be pinned down numerically or structurally or relationally. Fewer components in a system makes the system simple. Structurally, the parts are said to be simpler than the whole. The fewer the relationships between the parts the simpler the system is.
A complex system would have many components/parts and the relations between them would also be greater in number.
I guess I have a very basic conception of the words "simplicity" and "complexity" — TheMadFool
What is more complex, a cell or a mountain?...why? What is more complex, a human or the large hadron collider?...again, why? — ZhouBoTong
That we can create a mountain and a hadron collider but not a cell or a human is clear evidence in which category these four items fall. — TheMadFool
We can create only things we understand the mechanics of and what is beyond our understanding and therefore can't create is a sign that some stuff are just too complex. — TheMadFool
I guess I'm using intelligibility/comprehensibility as a good yardstick for discerning the simple from the complex. Do you think that's wrong? If yes, why? — TheMadFool
Obviously from an intelligibility/comprehensibility perspective it is off the charts complex. However, we can create tiny black holes in labs (that actually exist for fractions of a second). Also, they have just one part (the singularity) making them ultimately simple. But their gravity can potentially allow them to interact with a huge number of things. So if someone said a black hole is simple, they would be right - and if someone said a black hole was complex, they would be right.is a black hole very simple or very complex? — ZhouBoTong
Also, they have just one part (the singularity) making them ultimately simple. But their gravity can potentially allow them to interact with a huge number of things. So if someone said a black hole is simple, they would be right - and if someone said a black hole was complex, they would be right. — ZhouBoTong
I think you're equivocating between "black hole" and "black hole interactions". — TheMadFool
A black hole is simple relative to the interactions it can be part of. However, it is more complex than, say, a planet or a sun. — TheMadFool
However, it is more complex than, say, a planet or a sun. — TheMadFool
The problem is this:
1. People believe that simplicity evolves into complexity
2. Humans can't create anything more complex than themselves
If 1 is true then 2 should be false. — TheMadFool
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.