Free speech is not an object and no one believes it has magical powers, or at least you haven’t shown otherwise. — NOS4A2
A sheltered life must be nice. But even the biggest recluse can stay up on current events. — NOS4A2
It's a rhetorical ploy. — Banno
The link provided details the police powers reserved for the state and they include measures that restrict otherwise guaranteed rights. Which is why most of the Covid restrictions in the US were on a state by state basis by executive action of the respective governors. There isn't an explicit section on limiting speech regarding pandemics if that's what you mean, but there is plenty about the governments ability to act toward the ends of public health. One could imagine under the right conditions the government could curb misinformation.↪Cheshire I don't see anything that supports your claims. — Banno
I wonder if I should report this thread and this site for not complying with the Biden Administration executive orders — InPitzotl
You said executive orders; which is a thing. Yes, I agree the OP well outside of the boundaries of reality, but that's where many stand at the moment. So, Poe's Law sort of doubles back on itself, because your sarcasm could just as easily been representative of a literal position of the day. But, thanks for the clarification.I think you're falling prey to Poe's Law. — InPitzotl
I just though you might wish to peruse some information on the topic. — NOS4A2
I personally do not think there exists a unified antivaccination side. People who are not overtly enthusiastic about vaccination are a versatile group: from those who are rabidly against any kind of vaccination, to those who are just not very enthusiastic but who get vaccinated anyway, and anything inbetween. — baker
Of course pretty much everyone wants such protection. That's not the issue. You're strawmanning.My metaphoric view/understanding of issues of vaccination is as that of a man shooting a gun and do I want best protection from those bullets, or do I want no protection from those bullets.
I lump people who don't want best protection - or any protection - with those who think they will breathe underwater. Of course an irony is that many of those will almost have to. — tim wood
Which is a strange thing to say, after decades of fierce indoctrination that everyone should be responsible only for themselves.And wrt epidemics, choice of protection isn't really just about oneself but also about family and community.
That's glib.As to potential side effects, everything has those. Rhubarb, I read, will kill me if I'm careless with it.
I suppose it's like this for some people. It seems to me that for many more, it's "I'm already in bad shape, exhausted and stressed out to the max, I dread what will happen if I add more strain". For such a person, if they choose to get vaccinated and end up with serious side effects, they will have noone to blame but themselves. Hardly a prospect that one looks forward to.The instinct of "I'm fine, why introduce perceived risk" — Cheshire
One wonders when people will acknowledge that life is a group activity.Unfortunately, it makes for a lousy group decision and once people acknowledge that pandemics are group activities; then some of them come around.
I've thrown my lot in with those who say we can reach herd immunity with X% of the people vaccinated. That leaves an available Y% that don't have to get vaccinated if they don't want. Out of that Y% — James Riley
To me, people who are confident that they won't get any negative side effects from the vaccine are the same as people who are confident that there is no covid or that they will beat it by sheer force of will. — baker
Which is a strange thing to say, after decades of fierce indoctrination that everyone should be responsible only for themselves. — baker
This covid crisis is an opportunity to acknowledge this, but it looks like it will go by unused, as people are looking forward to go back to the old normal where they don't have to care about others. — baker
As of this date, 18july2021, the news reports that 100% or arbitrarily close to 100% of people currently sick or dying of Covid are unvaccinated. Of course that's only tens of thousands of people and just empirical data, nothing that should influence those who "know."The question is whether such protection is even possible, whether it exists, and whether it is possible in one's particular case, given one's current state of health. — baker
People are confident about all kinds of things, so what?To me, people who are confident that they won't get any negative side effects from the vaccine are the same as people who are confident that there is no covid or that they will beat it by sheer force of will. — baker
And wrt epidemics, choice of protection isn't really just about oneself but also about family and community. — timw
Riiiight. In my person I become a source of sickness and death, a mini-me Shiva. So fuck my family and my community, what are they to me? Their sickness and death are of no importance, significance, or relevance. Maybe you should look up "responsible" and "responsibility."Which is a strange thing to say, after decades of fierce indoctrination that everyone should be responsible only for themselves. — baker
Yeah, I wasn't thrilled about enduring the typical immune response from the second dose, but nothing happened. Same reason I dodged the flu shot for years. Not wanting to introduce a flu like experience to avoid one.I suppose it's like this for some people. It seems to me that for many more, it's "I'm already in bad shape, exhausted and stressed out to the max, I dread what will happen if I add more strain". For such a person, if they choose to get vaccinated and end up with serious side effects, they will have noone to blame but themselves. Hardly a prospect that one looks forward to. — baker
Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR.To me, people who are confident that they won't get any negative side effects from the vaccine are the same as people who are confident that there is no covid or that they will beat it by sheer force of will.
— baker
I don't think they are the same. I think the former realize risk but think of others. The latter realize risk but think of themselves. — James Riley
I didn't claim otherwise. Treating free speech as an object of adoration is fetishising it. Now go re-read the OP, and replies, and note the way free speech is treated.
Assange.
Fuck you for this cynicism.As of this date, 18july2021, the news reports that 100% or arbitrarily close to 100% of people currently sick or dying of Covid are unvaccinated. Of course that's only tens of thousands of people and just empirical data, nothing that should influence those who "know." — tim wood
At the end of the day, it's all about confidence. It's not even about health.People are confident about all kinds of things, so what?
I'm not the one who needs to look it up.Riiiight. In my person I become a source of sickness and death, a mini-me Shiva. So fuck my family and my community, what are they to me? Their sickness and death are of no importance, significance, or relevance. Maybe you should look up "responsible" and "responsibility."
Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR. — baker
Yeah, fair enough. I wasn’t trying to convince you of anything anyways. You asked, I thought I’d help. Cheers. — NOS4A2
And what does that say about your mother, your father, your family, your community, and the lessons they taught you? And the lessons you teach others, God help us!Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. — baker
Yep, tell that to the scared, suffering, incubated, and dying, and to the people who care for them and about them. And tell that to the people who end up paying for it all, namely all of us. (And give no thought at all to any science of the matter!)At the end of the day, it's all about confidence. It's not even about health. — baker
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