:up:

I’ve also read you in many threads on censorship and free speech pooh-poohing the topic. — NOS4A2

Oh, Nos, I haven't poo poo'd your fetish before.

Here's the point, just for you: the complaint in the OP is about a mooted schemes that might just stop folk telling lies. Assange is in jail for sharing truths.

This one, amongst others.

In a constitutional republic who should get to differentiate truths from lies?

Should persons be appointed who possess unique abilities or special knowledge that qualify them to do this?

Or, are there no such persons qualified to do this, because they simply do not exist?

So then, why not publish everything, why not let it all be said or written, whether we agree with it or not, whether we think it might be hurtful to some, or not, whether we think it is true or not, and let the citizens debate and judge for themselves.

Assange is in jail for skipping bail. But that’s ok. You’re allowed to spread falsities. We make mistakes; we get the wrong information; we believe stupid shit. And the fact that we are fallible is enough reason to oppose anyone having the power to determine what is or isn’t true in the first place.

The same institution after Assange is the same one now pressuring social media companies to enforce state truth. I don’t care if people start believing the moon is made out of cheese, no one should have the power to govern what is or isn’t true, especially a government like the United States.

Assange is in jail for skipping bail. — NOS4A2

That's factually incorrect.

Sorry, he was arrested for skipping bail. He is now facing extradition in the same cell. Now that’s a corrupt maneuver.

Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR.
— baker

I can only speak for myself, but I did it for others, not myself. Specifically my wife and son. While I want to live, I'm not married to life. I'm married to my wife and I love my son. I also don't want to be the one that murders some other poor sap for no reason other than my own pseudo skepticism.

I suspect that a great many people who got the vaccine think along the same line. But I could be wrong. — James Riley

Really? So we're supposed to believe that, for example, people who drive aggressively, who tailgate, cut in front, run others off the road etc. suddenly become paragons of compassion and empathy when a pandemic strikes? That men who refuse to wear condoms and who routinely risk the health and life of their female sex partners suddenly grew a conscience? Employers who have their workers work in unsafe conditions now suddenly "care about others"? Really?

P.S. Put this in the back of your brain pan for future reference: Did Isis or AQ or some other group weaponize this?

Eh?


Have you noticed that in the beginning, when they began vaccinating and vaccination was limited to the elderly and some other critical groups, the medical protocols were quite different than they are now?

Back then, a doctor would actually interview and examine the prospective vaccinee, their temperature was measured and a covid test done, and only if the covid test was negative was the person vaccinated, otherwise not. Now they don't do any of that anymore. They don't even have people wait for ten minutes afterwards.

The crowds and waiting lines for covid tests and vaccination are one of the main sources of infection. If it would be possible to reasonably guarantee that one isn't infected already shortly prior to the vaccination, and would be sent to quarantine after vaccination for long enough for the body to process the vaccine as it should, then it would all be an entirely different scenario. But the way medical protocols have been loosened, it's all so much more dangerous.

And what does that say about your mother, your father, your family, your community, and the lessons they taught you? And the lessons you teach others, God help us!

At the end of the day, it's all about confidence. It's not even about health.
— baker
Yep, tell that to the scared, suffering, incubated, and dying, and to the people who care for them and about them. And tell that to the people who end up paying for it all, namely all of us. (And give no thought at all to any science of the matter!)

Btw, are you vaccinated? Do you ever go to a doctor or take people you care about to the doctor? Or do you care about anyone, or anyone you? — tim wood

Your hostility is duly noted. Which of my bills are you willing to pay?

But of course, the placebo effect is real, and a great optimism about a medical treatment can contribute to better treatment outcomes. I actually envy the optimists. It must be great to be that way. Yay!!!! I wish I could be like that. Just close my eyes, not think, not feel, just go along with what those in positions of power say, and be happy, happy, happy.

Really? — baker

Yes, really.

So we're supposed to believe that, for example, people who drive aggressively, who tailgate, cut in front, run others off the road etc. suddenly become paragons of compassion and empathy when a pandemic strikes? That men who refuse to wear condoms and who routinely risk the health and life of their female sex partners suddenly grew a conscience? Employers who have their workers work in unsafe conditions now suddenly "care about others"? Really? — baker

No. You are supposed to believe those same pieces of shit are the same people who refuse a vaccine.

Have you noticed that in the beginning, when they began vaccinating and vaccination was limited to the elderly and some other critical groups, the medical protocols were quite different than they are now? — baker

Yes. It's called "science." Like when Fauci first said "no masks" he was just fully aware of how stupid people are, having witnessed it first hand, with the run on shit paper. He the selfish, greedy, inconsiderate, disrespectful shitheads outlined in your paragraph above would execute a nun on masks to the detriment of first responders. Once the masks were spun up and there was enough for everyone, he said to mask up. That was not a flip flop. That was not evidence of inconsistency or duplicity. It was science and a scientist running head-long into non-scientist idiots. Besides, if you know anything about science, you know it changes, all the time.

Regarding the rest of your post, it's not worth my time. It's stupid Faux News, Tucker Carlsonesque BS.

Your hostility is duly noted. Which of my bills are you willing to pay? — baker

I'm not willing to pay any of your bills. If you don't social distance, don't mask and don't vax, and if you get sick and go to the hospital and take up a bed that my wife or kid or me need for covid or some other reason, I will not only not pay your bills, but I'll rip the vent out of your mouth and dump your worthless carcass out the window and tell the Hippocratic Oath doc to forget your ass and get to work on me or mine.

But of course, the placebo effect is real, and a great optimism about a medical treatment can contribute to better treatment outcomes. I actually envy the optimists. It must be great to be that way. Yay!!!! I wish I could be like that. Just close my eyes, not think, not feel, just go along with what those in positions of power say, and be happy, happy, happy. — baker

I think you are worthless.

I social distance for the same reason I have always social distanced.

I wear a mask for the same reason I wear a gun.

I took the vaccine for the same reason I joined the Marine Corps.

I’ve never liked crowds, concerts, packed bars, or the teaming hordes. Six feet is tolerable, but I prefer fifty feet or, even better, fifty miles. The idea of wrestling or grappling or otherwise getting close to another man gives me the heeby jeebies. I’m good with distance. I do like essential workers, but I don’t want to snuggle with them

I wear a gun as a defense against sick people. I’ve done an un-scientific, subjective calculation of the odds versus the inconvenience and determined a mask is nothing. My gun weighs more, is less convenient, and the chances of needing it are less than a need for a mask. But I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I’d have to be physically or mentally handicapped to be inconvenienced by a mask.

I did not join the Marine Corps for any high ideals, to protect my fellow Americans, or to serve selflessly. I was too immature to understand deep patriotism beyond the propaganda I’d been fed. My patriotism was the kind that makes me cry when I hear the National Anthem. It was culturally imbued, intuitive; it was not learned, not cognitive, not philosophical, or deep. That would come later. But as a young man, I joined with reckless abandon, throwing caution to the wind, signing on the dotted line, a blank check up to and including my life. That’s why I took the vaccine. Was it a risk? Yes. So what? I roll the dice every time I go out the door. But I try to not risk other people when I risk myself.

I try to not be inconsiderate, disrespectful, or selfish.

I look to the BTDTs for guidance on science. Everyone else is a poser. Poser’s mistake being a critic for critical thinking. They forget analytics. Those who know are full of doubt. Those who don’t know are full of confidence. The world is funny that way.

I don’t pretend to be the man I want to be. But back in the day, there was a prototype. He was tough, and strong, and silent. He did not complain. He carried everyone else on his broad shoulders. I don’t know what happened to that man. Maybe he’s still out there: an Atlas not shrugging. Now we have tough, strong, loud mouths; incessantly complaining about those they perceive as weak or stupid. Shrugging off the load.

I feel like apologizing to the women of the world, but the closest thing I see to the prototype today are some women. The world is funny that way. More power to them.

I made a thread 7 hours ago for the purpose of discussing the topic which is supposedly being repressed. Informing others of your freelance medical knowledge during a pandemic and other great ideas.

I'm not willing to pay any of your bills. If you don't social distance, don't mask and don't vax, and if you get sick and go to the hospital and take up a bed that my wife or kid or me need for covid or some other reason, I will no only not pay your bills, but I'll rip the vent out of your mouth and dump your worthles carcass out the window and tell the Hippocratic Oath doc to forget your ass and get to work on me or mine. — James Riley

:100:

In my opinion this is both right and correct. Sometimes the stupidly dangerous and the dangerously stupid have to settle their bills. usually long after they should have, after damage is done. Such people are rats, snakes, weasels, vermin. And sometimes dealing with vermin is just plain a necessity.

What is to be said, or done, for example, about the governors of Florida and Texas who appear to want to be in the child murdering business?

Such people are rats, snakes, weasels, vermin. And sometimes dealing with vermin is just plain a necessity — tim wood

I don't want to start an argument, but you are being a little harsh on rats, snakes, weasels and vermin. I mean come on! :wink:

Yeah, those Governors of TX and FL are pieces of shit. Wait, that's not fair to shit.

It's a good joke but I let it go by. Because they really are worse. And that is not a joke. Serious business - and I suspect you would know more about that, maybe a lot more, than most of us.

On this issue I happen to agree. If Trump had moved to work with private companies to censor speech, liberals would have had cried and moaned like the little bitches they are. Yet somehow Biden, who is in every way as shit as Trump, in many way worse, does exactly this, suddenly it's OK. If these morons want a daddy who will tell them what they are allowed to access, they will get one. — StreetlightX

I assume from your posting history that you think hate speech should be banned; if that is right then why do you not apply the same principle to the kinds of baseless claims and disinformation that will likewise cause social and individual harm?

Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR. — baker

How did you come to be such an authority on the motivations of others?

Because the abuse of power by unaccountable multi-billion dollar international monopolies in cahoots with state power without option of recourse is something I am not OK with. It is also something not anyone should be OK with.

The principle at work is to follow the concentration and exercise of arbitrary power and oppose it.

Sure, but I'm not seeing why suppression of hate speech is not an abuse of power if the suppression of dangerous misinformation is.

Folks are always banging on about the suppression of free speech. There ought to be a law against it.

Rarely mentioned these days are the traditional justifications : truth, the public interest, and so on. Rather there is a blanket demand that lies and bullshit should have equal status for no reason except that it is sometimes hard to discern truth from falsehood.

But it becomes apparent that when they do have equal status, communication breaks down, and the resulting isolation produces madness and folly on an industrial scale.

I recently saw a flyer for a campaign "Against the Sexualisation of Children". In my innocence I assumed this was about media exploitation of children, gendered toys, sexualised clothes for children, child marriage, that sort of thing. But no, it was a campaign against the sexual education of children.

To me this is rather like campaigning against teaching children how to cross the road on the grounds that it will endanger them. This would be fine if roads were hidden away underground and children never encountered them, but whatever dangers are in their environment, children need to be educated to cope with.

That's right. Hatred and contempt are the noblest emotions of all.

Vote for Trump!

Nah. I doubt anyone in this whole thing really thinks of others. It's just politically correct to say one is doing it "for others". It makes for such good PR.
— baker

How did you come to be such an authority on the motivations of others? — Janus

You think people change just like that, over night? Because of a pandemic?

we're supposed to believe that, for example, people who drive aggressively, who tailgate, cut in front, run others off the road etc. suddenly become paragons of compassion and empathy when a pandemic strikes? That men who refuse to wear condoms and who routinely risk the health and life of their female sex partners suddenly grew a conscience? Employers who have their workers work in unsafe conditions now suddenly "care about others"? Really? — baker

And don't forget that the fully vaccinated are still spreading the disease. In fact, they are superspreaders, given the freedoms they have.

The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. — John Stuart Mill

H-O-W-E-V-E-R (how do I increase the font size?), as Abu Hirawa, in the Misfits (2021), says,

I believe you but there are those who are not interested in the truth [...] — Abu Hirawa (Misfits 2021)

You think people change just like that, over night? Because of a pandemic? — baker

It's well known that when people face adversity together it can bring them together. In any case I was taking issue with your generalising human nature by implying that everyone is primarily motivated by self-interest, I wasn't making any claim about people's motivations suddenly changing.

And don't forget that the fully vaccinated are still spreading the disease. In fact, they are superspreaders, given the freedoms they have. — baker

That some vaccinated people, due to breakthrough infection, are spreading covid is undeniable. That they are superspreaders has not been established. That said I think even the vaccinated should be adhering to the normal protocols designed to minimise transmission as long as there is covid in the community.

It's well known that when people face adversity together it can bring them together. — Janus

Hatred and contempt bind people closer together than love, indeed.

In any case I was taking with your generalising human nature by implying that everyone is primarily motivated by self-interest,

That is your inference, not my implication.

I wasn't generalizing human nature. I'm saying that the people who do as described above (from aggressive drivers to employers who have their employees work in unsafe conditions) often happen to be the same people who are enthusiastically in favor of the covid vaccine. When a person proves, with their behavior, that they do not care about others, it's hard to believe that they got vaccinated out of concern for others.

Mr. Riley and Mr. Wood, for example, certainly didn't get vaccinated out of concern for me. They don't even care enough to actually read what I say; they don't care enough to check whether the hatred and the contempt they have for me is in fact over something I actually said.

That some vaccinated people, due to breakthrough infection, are spreading covid is undeniable. That they are superspreaders has not been established. That said I think even the vaccinated should be adhering to the normal protocols designed to minimise transmission as long as there is covid in the community.

Like I said:

In fact, they are superspreaders, given the freedoms they have. — baker

That said I think even the vaccinated should be adhering to the normal protocols designed to minimise transmission as long as there is covid in the community.

But they don't. In fact, the whole idea of covid vaccination is that one can "go back to normal" once vaccinated.

Absolutely, but it goes way beyond Biden. Social media itself is a way to monopolize speech. Notice the decline of internet forums like these and the virtual death of chatrooms.

They want to offer us the sole outlet by which we communicate freely, and then to dictate how we communicate within their networks. And thus, to dictate how we communicate in the real world.

It's all just silly, of course...we're not a bunch of crazy people. But it's like...they don't want us to be individuals or have individual creative thought AT ALL. Which is just...sociopathic. And I can't imagine that we're actually being controlled by sociopaths, so I must assume we're being controlled by idiots.

"I Don't Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People." Dr. Fauci

"I Don't Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People." Dr. Fauci — James Riley

Neither do I.