Your interpretation is at odds with the text, though, and every interpretation of the meaning of the Allegory of the Cave that I've read. — Wayfarer
So the education in question, is the education necessary to overcome their attachment to the illusory domain and to perceive the real (i.e. be closer to 'what is'): — Wayfarer
... an image of our nature in its education and want of education ... (Republic 514a)
... such men would hold that the truth is nothing other than the shadows of artificial things. (515c)
“Then, dear Glaucon,” ...
A god doubtless knows if it happens to be true.
Once seen, it is reckoned to be the actual cause of all that is beautiful and right in everything ... — Wayfarer
Anyone who is to act intelligently, either in private or in public, must have had sight of this.
“I also hold the same views that you hold,” he said, “after my own fashion, anyway.”
I think 'the realm known by reason' — Wayfarer
Your interpretation is at odds with the text, though, and every interpretation of the meaning of the Allegory of the Cave that I've read. In the allegory 'prisoners' represent those ignorant of the forms:
For in the first place, do you think such people [i.e. the prisoners in the cave] would ever have seen anything of themselves, or one another, apart from the shadows cast by the fire onto the cave wall in front of them? — Wayfarer
Quoting from the text:
... an image of our nature in its education and want of education ... (Republic 514a)
The nature of the education of the cave dwellers, that is, our education, is that:
... such men would hold that the truth is nothing other than the shadows of artificial things. (515c)
What is wanting is an education in the truth. — Fooloso4
“Now,” I said, “consider what liberation from their bonds, and cure of their ignorance, would be like for them, if it happened naturally in the following way. Suppose one of them were released, and suddenly compelled to stand up, crane his neck, walk, and look up towards the light. Would he not be pained by all this, and on account of the brightness be unable to see the objects whose shadows he previously beheld? And if someone were to tell him that he beheld foolishness before, but now he sees more truly, since he is much closer to ‘what is’, and is turned towards things which partake of more being, what do you think he would say?"
A god would know if it happens to be true, but Socrates does not. — Fooloso4
When it comes to knowledge, the form of the good is seen last, and is seen only through effort. Once seen, it is reckoned to be the actual cause of all that is beautiful and right in everything, bringing to birth light, and the lord of light, in the visible realm, and providing truth and reason in the realm known by reason, where it is lord. Anyone who is to act intelligently, either in private or in public, must have had sight of this.”
That quoted passage says nothing about the "forms". — Janus
But Plotinus is not introducing a personal God to witness the activities. — Paine
Your interpretation is at odds with the text, though, and every interpretation of the meaning of the Allegory of the Cave that I've read. In the allegory 'prisoners' represent those ignorant of the forms: — Wayfarer
That quoted passage says nothing about the "forms".
— Janus
'When it comes to knowledge, the form of the good is seen last, and is seen only through effort.' — Wayfarer
The escape from the cave is an escape from the bonds of our education, an escape from the images of the truth. Replacing an image with another image, one of a transcendent realm of Forms, is not to escape the cave, but to remain bound within it. — Fooloso4
Of course not, but there are echoes of his doctrines in Christianity, due to the considerable influence of platonism on later Christian theology (for better or worse). — Wayfarer
At best, with respect to phenomena, it can only be said that the priority in the mind is the antecedent conceptual conditions by which they are possible, which is the deduction of the pure conceptions, better known as the categories. — Mww
'universals are not thoughts, though when known they are the objects of thoughts.' ~ Bertrand Russell — Wayfarer
What does it mean to be 'much closer to what is?' — Wayfarer
I do not agree with your interpretation of Kant here. — Metaphysician Undercover
Those 'dwelling in the cave' only know the appearances — Wayfarer
... you should compare our nature, in respect of education and lack of education, to a condition such as the following.
and the 'education in the truth' is described in the following — Wayfarer
“Now,” I said, “consider what liberation from their bonds, and cure of their ignorance, would be like for them, if it happened naturally in the following way. Suppose one of them were released, and suddenly compelled to stand up, crane his neck, walk, and look up towards the light.
“And,” I said, “if someone were to drag him forcibly from there ...
There is no suggestion that this is something he himself hasn't seen. — Wayfarer
God knows whether it happens to be true, but in any case this is how it all seems to me.
The point I wish to make is that the tension between the natural order and the truth of religion that occupied the Scholastic philosophers did not exist for Plotinus. — Paine
Be that as it may…..I mean, you pretty much disagree with everybody…..it is clear that priority in the mind, as such, cannot be phenomena. — Mww
Is there a philosopher (or more than one) from the Orthodox side you see as a counterpoint to the western Scholastics? — Paine
Perhaps another way to ask that is, was there a parallel equivalent of the Renaissance on the other side of the Schism? — Paine
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