A source of optimism for whom? The general public?First, the source of the "optimism" is the Actual Data that proves that among those in your exact situation (contemplating suicide), the vast majority (70 - 93%) will change their mind and decide that life is, in fact worth living after all. — LuckyR
What are you talking about??Though your implication is correct that many can not or will not understand or accept that data. But that is an error.
Don't forget people who have degenerative illnesses who would prefer to die than continue to experience suffering. Also people who have experienced traumatic events (prolonged sexual abuse, etc). The memories and pain - the PTSD may never go away either. Suicide may feel like the only method to gain permanent relief. — Tom Storm
Do people even want everyone to survive?Many people who undergo such things never recover, their brains seem to be rewired by the trauma. — Tom Storm
Kind of a dud answer if all you're gonna say is "it's subjective". — Darkneos
Perhaps the most important thing to learn in such discussions is that existential topics (including the question of suicide) are mostly pointless to try to discuss with others, and that this is due to the nature of those topics. — baker
The OP makes the error of implying that death is something that individuals can opt for or against. — LuckyR
This supposedly adverse effect on others is so often grossly overstated. — baker
Might not be relevant from a philosophical POV, but I highly recommend watching the "Death's Game" on Netflix. You will come up with answers to the questions you have mentioned by yourself. Do share your thoughts afterwards, if you decide to watch. — Ayush Jain
He was on the forums talking a lot about how meaningless his life felt, asking others to convince him that life is worth living. (These forums are a really bad place to come for that! — petrichor
My ex wife killed herself, and later my second wife's niece. I am left, as I am always left after contributions to this perennial topic, with a feeling of failure, and a feeling of reproach from an unanswerable source. — unenlightened
The case against suicide once all the emotion and man-made ethic/morality is removed, it is a matter that cannot be determined as an absolute. In other words the case against suicide is necessarily case specific and I tend to agree with the OP's attitude on this. — philosch
The same impulse which calls art into being, as the complement and consummation of existence, seducing to a continuation of life, caused also the Olympian world to arise, in which the Hellenic "will" held up before itself a transfiguring mirror. Thus do the gods justify the life of man, in that they themselves live it—the only satisfactory Theodicy! Existence under the bright sunshine of such gods is regarded as that which is desirable in itself, and the real grief of the Homeric men has reference to parting from it, especially to early parting: so that we might now say of them, with a reversion of the Silenian wisdom, that "to die early is worst of all for them, the second worst is—some day to die at all." — Nietzsche
The essential thing "in heaven and in earth" is, apparently (to repeat it once more), that there should be long OBEDIENCE in the same direction, there thereby results, and has always resulted in the long run, something which has made life worth living; for instance, virtue, art, music, dancing, reason, spirituality—anything whatever that is transfiguring, refined, foolish, or divine. — Nietzsche
So find something that transfigures your outlook...
It's subjective to you. But Nietzsche says most people don't even know their way into or out of that labyrinth in his day, I'd assume that holds true today also. — DifferentiatingEgg
The man spent his life knowing he would die early due to his life long medical conditions that were similar to his fathers...and he even overcame serious physical injuries, while being crippled by some life long hereditary conditions most likely falling under the umbrella of CADASIL. — DifferentiatingEgg
Fine if you chose not too, but really all you've declared here is that you're too lazy to attempt to tackle Nietzsche. That your transfiguring mirror is sour. — DifferentiatingEgg
A thoughtful and reasonable take on a difficult topic. I agree that folks are free to make the best decision for their particular circumstances. I also agree that such an important and especially permanent decision should be made with the utmost care and consideration. The fact that most make the decision relatively spontaneously is a tragedy.
I advised folks professionally who sought to make permanent decisions in situations where experience has shown that those in their demographic who chose to proceed later expressed regret at their decision in high numbers. Obviously I had a professional obligation to point out and underscore this statistic, but ultimately as these were adults, I assisted them should they choose, in spite of this knowledge, to go ahead. I did so with a clear conscience. Though most in my profession refused. — LuckyR
You can’t really remove emotion and man made ethics or morality from it since wanting to off yourself is rooted in such things — Darkneos
I disagree. Suicide may be rooted in those things or maybe not. Could be as simple as wanting to end the intractable pain from terminal bone cancer. I say the main argument against suicide is rooted in those things, not the wish to remove oneself from the suffering and loss and pain that it's possible to feel as a human being. Instead the religious view greatly effects whether we consider suicide a sin or a great act of heroism. Remove the religious, moral and ethical filters and focus on the 3 P's. The philosophical, psychological and physiological condition of the person who wishes to speed up their inevitable destiny. — philosch
I mean, with all due respect, *hammer emoji* *nail emoji* *coffin emjoi* one could not imagine a grander thesis... how am I to argue such infinite wisdom? You win. — DifferentiatingEgg
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