Read carefully: he advised to use chemical weapons. — ssu
And no, chemical weapons were not used in Iraq by the British forces (or else it would be part of the academic curriculum now days in the UK with all the neocolonialism etc). — ssu
Some might argue thus that genocide is a defensive weapon: if the enemy hostile to your people are multiple times larger, isn't it then good to erase the threat? — ssu
There has to be some grain of reality even in a hypothetical, hence why think that "the only viable weapon" would an ineffective weapon system especially when all German soldiers have gas masks? — ssu
Or to put it another way: if some weapons system is really a game changer on the battlefield, in this World it surely isn't going to be banned. — ssu
I have many thoughts on the topic, and some historical data which I'm not prepared to share since they're available to anyone interested enough to bother. — Vera Mont
The most straightforward causes of what is called terrorism ...................... is a people's sense of oppression, repression, and impending existential threat. — Vera Mont
This is all irrelevant because they don't have a just cause. If you really want to argue that war crimes are permitted then Hamas did the right thing since everybody is equating them with Palestinians which are an oppressed group. — Benkei
I thought this the most salient passage because I think it the crux of the debate on the whole current conflict. — schopenhauer1
Israel fails on 4 and 6 for decades already. It is also illegally occupying land and had Gaza turned into an open air prison. — Benkei
I think that after such an attack it would be a normal response. The USA went after ISIS I believe after the attacks. There were fewer cases of lateral damage because the people from ISIS did not hide in peoples houses and hospitals.Its leadership had expressed genocidal intent again and again. — Benkei
Suppose on what evidence? — Vera Mont
I could. But it would take too long and you would never be convinced anyway, so it seems like a futile effort. — Vera Mont
Honestly, I am quite skeptical of how much of this is true, given by how many parallels there are. And if it is true, I would imagine that the story comes from contact with Christian missionaries.
It may seem like I am playing hard to catch but I studied a bit of anthropology and some red flags are being raised for me. — Lionino
You wouldn't even have to target N. Korean population centers. In the event of an invasion, tactical nukes against their invading forces would be sufficient. China would object, but they're not going to commit suicide to come to an invading N. Korea's aid. — RogueAI
Who started the peasants' rebellion? Might the trouble have begun with people with a degree of wealth and education who riled up the peasants? — Athena
Might that rebellion have begun with Scholasticism? — Athena
Is transubstantiated bread and wine real? :chin: — Athena
Well, let's look at one of those lines on a map. If North Korea invades South Korea and has killed hundreds of thousands of citizens in Seoul using gas weapons, and is poised to overrun South Korea, would the U.S. be justified in nuking North Korea to save South Korea? — RogueAI
Kill 'em all!
But for the sake of all that's unholy, do not, ever address the situations that give rise to terrorism. — Vera Mont
After this brief survey of the Just War Tradition we can conclude the following six criteria regarding Ius ad Bellum:
1) right authority; meaning the supreme authority, which cannot turn to a higher authority
2) just cause; of which are identifiable, self-defence, defence of a friend or ally, wars of recovery both immediate and after some time, self-determination and finally humanitarian intervention; no punitive wars are allowed
3) right intention; an authority should have as its aim the common good of all involved although the particular good of its own community may outweigh such considerations; the intention to kill is lawful for a public authority
4) last resort; all other means to solve the conflict must have been tried and failed
5) reasonable chance of success; before waging a war an authority must surmise whether a war will be successful for otherwise he will waste the lives of its citizens
6) proportionality; the evils let loose by war should be proportionate to the evil avoided or the better peace attained — Benkei
Well, if all the Palestinians have to die in order to stop one terrorist organization out of the sixty or so designated by the CIA, why should we question that moral choice? — Vera Mont
So how do you know they are older than the Jews? — Lionino
Who wrote this book?
Moses is the author of Genesis. Moses was a prophet who was called by God to lead the children of Israel out of bondage from Egypt, through the wilderness, to the promised land of Canaan. Because the events in Genesis occurred before Moses’s time, he did not learn about them firsthand. They were made known to him through revelation (see Moses 1:40; 2:1), and he may also have relied on historical sources available to him (see Abraham 1:31).
Pretty sure the Yoruba had no contact with the Egyptians. — Lionino
Spoken like a true nationalist. — Benkei
the nation is a specific power structure leveraging a national (often ethnic or cultural) identity to generate loyalty in accordance with that identity — Benkei
None of that proves that the Hebrew creation myth comes from Africa. — Lionino
However, it is impossible to say that African versions of this story are the originals. There is no written material coming out of SSA that is as old as the Mesopotamian sources. The Yeruba people didn't emerge until millennia later and the Asante are a good deal later than them. — Count Timothy von Icarus
He says "Biblical story of creation", not that the story of creation was invented by Christians. Obviously not, since Genesis is in the Torah. — Lionino
Source? Businessinsider articles don't count. — Lionino
When Rome fell the Biblical story of creation remained. Some call this period the Dark Ages. What changed the direction Europe was going? — Athena
No. The people, collectively, exist to serve the nation. — Vera Mont
Nationalism doesn't exist, and we're just one big happy family? — Tzeentch
You're starting to bend yourself in fascinating angles. — Tzeentch
it was the nation and the empire he served, not the people. — Vera Mont
That's my main point: the idea that in some hypothetical situation usually should mean that this has something to do with reality. — ssu
War crimes and terror are usually done as method of control of the civilian populace: strike so much fear that they won't lift a finger up. Or at worst, having genocide and/or ethnic cleansing as the ultimate objective. — ssu
Otherwise it would be like asking if "the only viable method" to continue the existence of humanity would be to rape women, is then forced sex then OK? It's quite a bizarre and loaded question itself which tells something about the person that would ask something like that, because having children and child rearing has been usually done in a consensual manner. — ssu
Which is clearly a nationalist sentiment, and Churchill was clearly a nationalist.
I'm not sure how that isn't obvious.
You seem to be unaware of the nature of the things you're arguing and now you're trying to compensate with snark. — Tzeentch
Incredible! The thought-experiment gets less plausible by the minute. — Vera Mont
Then how would it stop the enemy, who would presumably be more prepared for gas attack than the local peasants? — Vera Mont
How do you use poison gas on an enemy incursion by sea and air, without affecting a large portion of your own civilian population? You can't. Just have to write off the casualties as collateral damage - which puts — Vera Mont
If committing war crimes against people that use war crimes as an everyday weapon is the only viable method of stopping them from continuing their evil ways, then fucking well stop them. — Sir2u
Hence there's the error of thinking that warcrimes would be "the only viable method". — ssu
All this would have done is caused a reshuffle and Anthony Eden would have had the same decisions to make. — Sir2u
Morality isn't about Britain. — Tzeentch
Who knows what would have happened?
Perhaps the world would have become a better place with so many people wisening up and taking the high road. — Tzeentch
Morality is nationalism? What a profoundly silly opinion. That's probably why he stayed in politics. — Tzeentch
Suppose Germany had won the Battle of Britain and then launched an invasion of England. Churchill authorizes the use of poison gas and it becomes a decisive factor in repelling the Nazi invasion. — RogueAI
While the powerful villain "forcing" one to act is a common concept, I think we should remain critical about whether there is actually any forcing going on.
Winston for example is perfectly free to leave office. He's not forced to do anything.
There's a perfectly moral option available to him: extract himself from this rotten game of states, and search for greener, less homicidal pastures. — Tzeentch
I agree. The worst thing is the loss of imagination. If you read a book, you have to imagine the story, the people and the events yourself. Listening is different, you have to concentrate on the listening. And watching a movie and you don't have to use your imagination at all. — ssu
Did that plague lead to the weakening of the Catholic church and the rise of Protestantism? — Athena
The anarchy following the weakening of Catholic power and control is a lesson for us, isn't it? — Athena
We now have people trying to convince people who are categorically opposed to certain immoral actions because they seem to be incapable of grasping that for some people certain aspects of morality are immutable. — Benkei
I am listing to a professor's lectures on the Renaissance and Reformation, times of big changes. I think we come to another period of big changes. Is there anything from the past that might help us today? — Athena
Fantasies are helpful in creating the future. What would have happened if there was no Renaissance? What if Martin Luther had not caused the loss of Catholic authority and a new way of seeing the Bible? — Athena
IHL is based in law, ergo, a set of rules that have agreed upon should be followed.
It is underpinned by, among other things, morality, but pointing at IHL is not a moral argument. It's a legal argument. — Tzeentch
That would be a matter for criminal law, not IHL. — Tzeentch
In the case of an armed conflict not of an international character, serious violations of article 3 common to the four Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, any of the following acts committed against persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention or any other cause:
Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
Committing outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
Taking of hostages;
The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all judicial guarantees which are generally recognized as indispensable. — Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
A moral justification is (or should be) based on an exhaustive argument, preferably all the way down to first principles, as to why a certain action is good.
A "plain ordinary justification" is a fancy word for an opinion. — Tzeentch
Killing animals, not a moral choice. :brow:
Ok then... — Tzeentch
Can you expound on the difference you're thinking about between "morally justified" and "justification"? — Benkei
Poison gas only becomes a war crime in the 1920s due to international agreement, so presumably before that it was acceptable. — BitconnectCarlos
You're confusing law with morality. — Benkei
And this is what you would term "justice"? :chin: — Tzeentch
Is that based on MORALITY or convenience? If morality, which version of it, whose morality? Also many gangs around the world should therefore be tried under these rules, do you think they will ever do that.The term "war crime" refers to international humanitarian law. — Tzeentch
If you're asking me whether war of any kind can be morally justified, my answer would be no. — Tzeentch
If this isn't a moral question to you, then I'm afraid there might not be enough common ground to have a constructive discussion. — Tzeentch
As for the question of reasonableness: there are many things some people at some point thought to be reasonable. Considering how unreasonable mankind tends to be (especially when it comes to conflict) such a label bears little substance to me. — Tzeentch