My personal favourite part is all these "small government" idiots partying everytime Trump guts something in a vindictive retaliation at his perceived enemies while Musk stands to win over 50 billion USD in government contracts. — Benkei

My favorite is comparing the scandals that the Republicans uphold by Congressional investigations to tarnish Democrats and then compare them to the fumblings that Republicans do.

The Signal-app use scandal is the latest hilarious issue. Comparing it to Hillary's "private server" incident. But if you mix up "JD" with "JG" and don't notice that among members you have put in an reporter and then just talk about future military operations, that's so hilariously pathetic.

QALY's are cost efffectiveness indicators and death toll are quite different things. And the Netherlands had one of the lowest death rates to COVID-19, only a third of the deaths per million that the US and many other countries suffered.

Some countries had it better. (But this is for the Coronavirus thread that still goes on.)

The problem is that there are many misuses of infinity, such as the idea that there is some type of thing which can be infinitely divided. — Metaphysician Undercover

Is this a "misuse" in mathematics? We are talking about mathematics.

Pick two real numbers, and it can be shown that there are real numbers between them. Pick even two rational numbers, and you have rational numbers between them.

You would wander to the illogical, if you would to start to argue that it isn't so, that it's misuse or something.

The pandemic was a disaster because it came from a lab, likely funded by the US and China, and therefore entirely avoidable. — Tzeentch

That was a case example of how that was tried to be controlled, by those that had ties to it.

As far as the death toll goes, it wasn't anything special - on the level of a serious flu. — Tzeentch

No, it was one of the large pandemics and historically a notable pandemic. You yourself said that flus kill 60 000-70 000 a year, which is actually on the high side. Something hundred times deadlier is a notable event.

And of course, the AIDS has been a larger killer, but it has lasted for far longer.

The economic fallout is much more damaging than the death toll. Although it’s difficult to see because there is other economic turmoil going on at the same time. — Punshhh

Here the cause effects in history makes history not so clear. The inflation spurt was basically caused by the actions to avoid the "natural" recession when people are forced to stay at home. But these events then blend in to others. Another issue is also the 2008/2009 Financial Crisis and the Great Recession, which basically too has still fundamental effects still to this day.

This makes us very difficult to see what is happening. Some things are just events of the day, some are events taking many years to develop. Only with historical perspective the historians can have an agreement on what were the notable events as something "notable" is something that explains future development.

Remember what he told in his second inaugral address:

The United States will once again consider itself a growing nation — one that increases our wealth, expands our territory, builds our cities, raises our expectations, and carries our flag into new and beautiful horizons.

Territorial expansion is something very close to heart for him indeed.

What I meant is that afterwards a lot seems to be the same if our own lives are similar, when we live and work at the same place, see same friends. It seems that nothing has happened. Yet a lot has and will happen.

Now when the United States is again under populist leadership, I would come back to this discussion that we had a year ago. In the OP I wrote:

It just seems that there's no antidote to populism, no way other than the disillusionment after the populists fail when in power. Then you just hope you have the means to get them out of power. — ssu

I would still hold that this is true. But perhaps here Trump's vindictive and outrageous policies are just creating this antidote to populism in a far quicker pace that we could imagine.

In Canada the conservative Pierre Poilievre was campaigning "Maple MAGA" and totally following the Trump playbook, until Trump had his brainfart of wanting Canada to be the 51st state of the US and started the trade war. A year ago Trumpism seemed to be working. But now it seems like a kiss of death. Similar things seem to happen also in Europe.

We're limited in terms of measuring -- but I want to say that Zeno's paradoxes are not problems of measurement at all. They are logical problems (which is why they evoke the difference between physics and logic and math, as the OP stated already) — Moliere

The logical problems are the result of not having an adequate way of measuring. We are reduced to logical possibility. If we had the proper way we wouldn't have to entertain those possibilities. — Metaphysician Undercover

Here I would side with @Moliere. It is a logical problem. Or basically that the measurement problem is a logical problem, hence you cannot just suppose there to be "an adequate way of measurement".

The problem is infinity itself. And that is a logical problem for us.

In that case I'd say I'm in even less understanding of the difference between the "size" of infinite sets. — Moliere

Ok, it's can be difficult to understand, but I'll try to explain.

Let's say you have a set of numbers, let's call them Moliere-numbers. As they are numbers, you can always create larger and larger Moliere-numbers. Hence we say there's an infinite amount of these numbers. The opposite of this would be a finite number system that perhaps an animal could use: (nothing, 1, 2, 3, many) as that has five primitive "numbers".

If we then say that these Moliere-numbers are countably infinite, then it means that there's a way to put them into a line:

Moliere-1, Moliere-2, Moliere-3,.... and so on, that you can be definitely sure that you would with infinite time and infinite paper write them down without missing any.

If Moliere-numbers are uncountably infinite, then we can show that any possible attempted list of Moliere numbers doesn't have all Moliere-numbers.

my thought was to extend that to the rational sets "All Rational Numbers" and "All Rational Even numbers", and note how, intuitively at least, that the first seems to contain about twice as much as the second, even though both are infinite. — Moliere

Ok.

If you think so, then wouldn't there be more natural numbers (1,2,3,...) than numbers that are millions? Isn't there 999 999 between every million?

No, similar amount, because
(1,2,3,....) can be all multiplied by million
(1000 000, 2 000 000, 3 000 000,...)

And because you can make a list of all rational numbers (as above), the you can fit that line with the (1,2,3,...) line in similar fashion. That's the bijection, 1-to-1 correspondence.

The way I put it to make it make sense to me: I can say there are "more" rational numbers than there are even numbers. Both sets are infinite, but it seems to me that the Rational Numbers > the Even Rational Numbers, as I understand the notions. — Moliere

Umm... as the set of rational numbers is countably infinite, I would say there's as many rational numbers as there are natural numbers or "even rational numbers".

Because you can go through all rational numbers in the way Cantor showed:

It'll be quite interesting to see how these threads go when, in say six years time, shit's the same. No disaster, no world war, no collapse of society... Wonder how we will deal with that. — AmadeusD

Hmm....

The Corona pandemic killed about 1,2 million people in the United States alone. In the World roughly seven million.

Now we had a thread about that here... still do. Let's just look at the Opening Paragraph (OP) and the first reply from page 1:

Coronavirus, COVID-19, is spreading exponentially. So far we have seen news reports from countries where there is an organised and rapid response to outbreaks. But what we are beginning to see now is it's rate of infection in countries without such preparedness. Italy and more worrying Iran. Italy is adopting a very strict strategy now, after being slow to tackle the infection. Whereas Iran is in denial, they are refusing to quarantine suspected cases. They have refused to lock down an important religious site which appears to be the epicentre of their outbreak. Also it has been spreading amongst the political class. There is talk of it's spreading rapidly throughout the Middle East.

What concerns me is that the chaos which will ensue in the Middle East, the virus will find a breeding ground and develop into a more deadly strain. Similarly to the way that Spanish Flu developed during the chaos of the First World War.

Should we be worried, or should we just wait until a vaccination is developed so that we can irradicate it through a vaccination programme?
Or is this the beginning of a deadly pandemic? — Punshhh

Overblown hysteria. The media have nothing better to report, and what better to draw attention than pretending there's a crisis.

The coronavirus has killed about 2,700 people so far. The flu kills roughly 60,000-70,000 people each year. — Tzeentch

Yeah, so do you think @AmadeusD that the pandemic was something you would put into that category of "no disaster... Wonder how we will deal with that."

Because naturally at hindsight everything will look OK. My grandparents lived through a civil war and World War 2 and survived, so naturally my life has been just dancing on roses compared to that.

Are you OK with Brussels annexing Ukraine? Or do you prefer euphemisms like “European integration”? — NOS4A2

Well, EU membership, just as with actually NATO membership, countries have asked themselves to join, not that they have been forced to join. Countries like Norway have even negotiated about joining EU and then have decided that the benefits aren't so good and opted not to join. If you assume that the EU would be another imperialist player, would it let tiny but oil rich Norway not to be a member? Not how the EU works.

When Ukrainians seeing how Poland and other European countries have prospered in EU when their country has stagnated, hope to join the EU is quite understandable. Friendship with Russia didn't given them prosperity.



But I guess you might have gone too far down the rabbit hole and eagerly accept bullshit lies of Putin and think that there's nothing good even in what your own country has done (before Trump) and it's just the strong against the weak. And to say anything else is just naive.

Well, as I live in the country that ought to have the happiest people in the World (which is crazy btw), I disagree. We're still the good guys here and don't hate our government. :wink:

I hope he’s not going to Nuuk Greenland. — Punshhh

Trump sending his national security advisor looks a bit sinister.

Is your main concern that countries should respect one another's sovereignty? — frank

Mainly yes. Especially when you start craving for territories from others, it's really like opening a Pandora's box or summoning the Devil. Nothing else can harm relations so easily. And I'm fully aware that many times countries do intervene in the politics of others and especially if a country collapses into Civil war, yet it's really a big step then to go to annexations. Especially when there is no desire among the people to join another country.




The absurdity of all of this is that if Trump wasn't so obsessed to annex Greenland, make it part of the US, the "neo-imperialist" option would be there, which likely would succeed as John Bolton has described. The US would simply behind closed doors push Denmark to give independence to Greenland, then make security arrangements with the new independent country and help the new country to it's feet (and thus getting a close relationship with the country). Now Greenlanders do want independence, but they also understand that there's just 50 000+ of them and they simply don't have the income to provide all the services that now Denmark is providing, starting from things like Greenland has no universities and the Greenlanders can now study higher education in Denmark.

Now what would some JD Vance (or her wife) look like going to Greenland and supporting the freedom of Greenlanders and stating that the people have the right for independence and would stand among them waving the red-white flag? VERY DIFFERENT!

And anyway, the idea that more territory gives you more prosperity is basically an outdated idea...

But that's not what Trump's America stands for. Not at all.

The decision to support them or not, and under what conditions, is ours. The idea that we should just follow them, wherever that may lead us, is insane considering what is at stake. — ChatteringMonkey

So when it's your country who will need assistance, will you be then happy with allies that decide that what they can do to answer your call for article 5 assistance is to send your country bodybags, because you need those and anything else would be too "escalatory" for their own safety? After all, they have to think about their own security and not put that on line with you and your decision...

Let's just remind us what Europe has done to help Ukraine: it has given weapons assistance, financial aid and is giving refuge to millions of Ukrainians. Europe is not giving manpower as North Korea is doing. It isn't letting it's airspace or territory to Ukraine to attack Russia like Belarus is giving to Russia.

You should think first how the allies of Russia are behaving here. And just how they are left alone.

And then come the threats from Russia and all the hybrid attacks that it already is making and has made even before 2022. Against my country even before we were part of NATO.

As I've said, appeasement is not only historically, but in this situation logically it is the worst thing to do.

. I wish we would stop the empty promisses, so as to not give Ukraine false hope, and not to hinder peace negotiations. I think it's disgusting the way we are handling it, with so much at stake either we do as we say, or we shut up. — ChatteringMonkey

This is actually confusing. On one hand you argue that the promises are empty, on the other hand it seems that we should not give the promises.

In the end it's not our decision to do. It's the Ukrainians that should decide how to go forward.

And I think it's totally consistent to back up Ukraine, as they know better what they can do and what they are facing. The idea of others deciding on behalf of Ukrainians is not only arrogant and condescending, but inherently dangerous.

What's suspicious is the national security advisor going along with Usha Vance to a dog sledge competition in Greenland. The Greenlanders aren't amused.

(The Guardian)Greenland’s prime minister has accused Washington of interfering in its political affairs with the visit of an American delegation this week to the Arctic island coveted by the US president, Donald Trump.

“It should be said clearly that our integrity and democracy must be respected without foreign interference,” Múte Egede said on Monday, adding that the planned visit by the second lady, Usha Vance, along with the national security adviser, Mike Waltz, “cannot be seen as just a private visit”.

Vance, the wife of the US vice-president, JD Vance, will travel to Greenland as Trump clings to the idea of a US annexation of the strategic, semiautonomous Danish territory.

Vance will visit Greenland on Thursday with a US delegation to tour historical sites, learn about the territory’s heritage and attend the national dogsled race, the White House said. The delegation will return to the US on 29 March.

Waltz and the energy secretary, Chris Wright, will also travel to Greenland to visit a US military base, a US official said. The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

What's the likelyhood of Trump being so insane that he would truly annex the Panama Canal Zone AND Greenland?

Taking back to US control the Canal Zone is real possibility.

But Greenland, really?

Because when you look at a map with Canada and Greenland being a part of the US, you can understand where this delusional ideas come from. Talk about grandeur:




Are Americans here truly OK with this? This what you really want? Because Trump sure as hell wants this.

And if the support for Ukraine is dropped, Russia will surely prevail.

Here's one, a cartoon encouraging "domestic terrorism"?

And we used the "nuclear bomb" of financial measures against them. — ChatteringMonkey

The financial measures are always overstated, because for Putin this is an existential endeavor. He will put nearly everything on the line and only won't dare to touch the pool of reservists in the Moscow and St. Petersburgh region. But ethnic minorities, they can be thrown to the meatgrinder.

We are at war, what do you expect? — ChatteringMonkey

We are not in war. In war, the missiles would be flying into the city you or I live in. That's not happening. Basically there's a term in Finnish for what we are in now: harmaa aika, basically "grey time" as these things aren't black and white. And likely Russia will also want to have the time to continue like this.

That Russia would just say, go ahead Europe, you can freeze all our foreign assets, throw us out of the global banking system, give financial and military support to our enemy we are at war with? — ChatteringMonkey

And when Russia attacks an non-aligned country that doesn't pose a threat to it, when NATO wasn't on the table (even Germany made this absolutely clear prior to the February 2022 invasion), and Russia breaks dozens of international agreements starting from the UN charter, we shouldn't respond?

Don't lose touch of what is the reason and what is the consequence here.

I mean, back then the laws professed towards women were much less favorable towards women, and how did they (men) get punished, if at all, once committing such crimes (rape/molestation of women)? — Shawn

In Sweden the first legislation protecting women was given by king Magnus Ladulås in 1280. In Finnish, the term use is naisrauha, direct translation is women peace, legislation was given to protect women from harassment, including sexual harassment. Basically it forbid to have any sex without being married and stated adultery also be illegal (which was naturally already there). Thanks to the legislation, a women didn't have to have a witness to a rape. Hence these legal attitudes go a long way. And punishment? You could get the death penalty, as typically for Medieval times you could get for many things.

Yet I think that we should notice that even today in societies where women don't have rights and don't participate in the workforce, they are protected. At least in the eyes of the societies themselves. Every woman or girl is someone's daughter. And when the women marries, then there is her husband and his family.

An American saying how it is. Just love the constant honking in support of the cars going by.

I've said that Musk will be the most hated guy in the US for a long time. And likely he might stay for six months and then has to retire to look after his collapsed businesses (that likely will be saved by the Trump government).

Yet the project is clear: Elon brakes everything, does the "savings", then afterwards Republicans can just say it has already been done, that it wasn't them.

Actually comes to mind how politicians in Europe blame always the EU and Brussels for every painful decision they make. With the exception that the EU doesn't demolish the institutions of government like a madman.

Trump is not going to side with Russia in attacking Europe. — ChatteringMonkey

That attack might not take the form which it took in February 24th 2022. Please understand that the objective is to 1) destroy the Transatlantic alliance and 2) weaken the EU. With these objectives Russia gains power and influence over Europe and then can work on enlarging it's sphere of influence.

And Russia isn't going to attack Europe on its own, because they can't.

Non of this is real. — ChatteringMonkey

It is real alright. I can list just like @jorndoe the hybrid attacks now being implemented against Europe, but if don't care about that. Yet the truth is the following:

(CSIS) Russia is engaged in an aggressive campaign of subversion and sabotage against European and U.S. targets, which complement Russia’s brutal conventional war in Ukraine. The number of Russian attacks in Europe nearly tripled between 2023 and 2024, after quadrupling between 2022 and 2023. Russia’s military intelligence service, the Main Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (or GRU), was likely responsible for many of these attacks, either directly by their own officers or indirectly through recruited agents. The GRU and other Russian intelligence agencies frequently recruited local assets to plan and execute sabotage and subversion missions. Other operations relied on Russia’s “shadow fleet,” commercial ships used to circumvent Western sanctions, for undersea attacks.

The data indicate that Russia poses a serious threat to the United States and Europe and that the Russian government, including President Vladimir Putin, cannot be trusted. Roughly 27 percent of the attacks were against transportation targets (such as trains, vehicles, and airplanes), another 27 percent were against government targets (such as military bases and officials), 21 percent were against critical infrastructure targets (such as pipelines, undersea fiber-optic cables, and the electricity grid), and 21 percent were against industry (such as defense companies). Many of these targets had links to Western aid to Ukraine, such as companies producing or shipping weapons and other matériel to Ukraine. Russia also used a variety of weapons and tactics. The most common (35 percent) involved explosives and incendiaries. Other weapons and tactics included blunt or edged instruments (27 percent), such as anchors used to cut undersea fiber-optic cables; electronic attack (15 percent); and the weaponization of illegal immigrants (8 percent).

I think he says that because we keep pretending like we are not in the war, i.e. that we're only providing help "to protect Ukraines sovereignty". — ChatteringMonkey

Giving arms to a belligerent isn't the same as being in war. That we've learnt from the Cold War. He simply says this to justify his action to attack Ukraine and continue the war in Ukraine. The lie that Ukraine is ruled by Neo-Nazi drug users flies only so far.

But yes we need to find a workable security arrangement for Ukraine, I do agree with that because otherwise you have the same problem in a few years. — ChatteringMonkey

Not according to the Trump people. Putin is totally reliable for them. And that should tell us Europeans a lot.

And then what, we end up in a Weimar Germany kind of situation? You don't think that is something we should be trying to avoid at all cost? — ChatteringMonkey

I think sooner or later the paper money system will collapse. But it's not the end of the World. Debts are then either defaulted or repaid by inflation and those that do have their savings in bonds and cash will lose that wealth. But then life goes on.

And I don't think Trump is doing Putin's bidding, he just wants out because he thinks that is in US interests... and for that he needs to find some common ground with Putin. — ChatteringMonkey

He isn't, really?

If you listen for example to Tucker Carlson interviewing Steve Witkoff, Trump's real estate friend turned negotiator, you can clearly see the wonderful relationship Trump has with Putin. After praising Donald Trump for his wisdom, Witkoff praises Putin several times and says that Putin isn't a bad guy. Witkoff tells to Carlson how Putin has prayed for Trump and how Putin presented a picture of Trump for Witkoff to take to Trump and how moved the American President is from the action. This is nearly something like the US being a negotiator between Israel and Hamas, with the role of Hamas given to Ukraine, the problematic party here that doesn't get it and is disrespectful. And that Ukraine is totally doomed and Russia will otherwise triumph over it.

And the EU? Witkoff tells that the Europeans are simplistic, that it's just all just posture and a pose. And Wittkoff states that with 100% Russia does not want to "march through Europe". Oh, how benevolent and friendly Russia is and how it just wants peace.

Sorry, but that praising and incredible bullshit made me feel like vomiting. Yet with appeasement you do get peace. Putin can have it all. Surrender is the easiest way to get peace. That is the fucking "common ground" the US is pushing basically here.

Trump wants some lucrative deal from Russia and the Nobel peace prize and doesn't care a shit what happens to Ukraine or NATO. For Trump his personal interests are also naturally the interests of the US. He is the US president, after all.

And if you say I'm wrong, that this is the way to negotiate with Russian, then please tell why ALL the previous US negotiators that brokered the nuclear limitation talks or even the kilotons to kilowatts -agreement with the Russians said something else. They all repeat the similar story that you have to be tough as the other side, the Russians, are tough negotiators, and one shouldn't trust, and if you trust, verify.

Putin wants a neutered and broken up Ukraine and after that he will go against the EU with the help of Trump.

Europe truly needs to gets it's act together and understand what a threat the Trump-assisted Putin is for peace in our continent.

Are people in the US more interested in entertainment than facts/ethics? — jorndoe

I think things can be changing now:

The progressive MeidasTouch Podcast has cemented its position as America’s most-streamed show, amassing nearly 125 million downloads and views in just one month—a staggering leap that more than doubles its February numbers. This surge marks a dramatic shift in the podcasting landscape, as the left-leaning platform continues to outpace The Joe Rogan Experience, which trailed with 64 million downloads. MeidasTouch first claimed the top spot earlier this year, ending Rogan’s long-standing reign

(Newsweek) MeidasTouch, a progressive media network that is highly critical of President Donald Trump, has been named YouTube's most popular news and politics channel over the past three days, just ahead of Fox News.

Finland and Denmark issued travel warnings to the US.

I find the Finnish the warning quite sound:

In Finland, a new advisory warns that if a traveller’s gender marker in their passport does not match the gender confirmed at birth, U.S. authorities may deny entry. The Finnish Ministry of Foreign Affairs advises travellers to confirm all entry conditions with the U.S. authorities in advance. The Finnish guidance also notes that Finland does not issue passports with an “X” gender designation. Dual citizens with such documents are advised to check eligibility with the U.S. before travelling.

The Danish one is similar:

The Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs has added a new section to its U.S. visa guidance. It advises applicants that U.S. authorities only accept two gender categories on visa applications: male or female. If a traveller’s passport includes an “X” gender marker or their legal gender differs from their birth sex, the ministry recommends contacting the U.S. embassy before travelling.

But it's not only this. As the German report tells, the border officials can be mini-dictators and the victims aren't just sexual minorities:

in Western Europe there hasn't been a serious threat for 80 years, and as a consequence the military has suffered. — ChatteringMonkey

This simply isn't true. During the Cold War, there was a credible deterrence against the Soviet threat. The Bundeswehr had a strength of half a million soldiers. Heck, Germany would have had even tactical nuclear weapons during wartime. Now you can see this equipment in a museum.



This draw down happened only after the Cold War ended. That is 30 years ago, not 80 years. And naturally the threat that Putin's Russia poses is far smaller than what the Soviet Union did.

Since they already occupy the territories they are asking for, they don't really need a peace deal... — ChatteringMonkey

Actually, they don't. Putin is asking for oblasts that aren't totally in Russian hands.

We support him to get the realistically best possible peace deal, not to fight on indefinately. — ChatteringMonkey

That would be the European objective, not Trump's objective, who is basically doing the bidding of Russia here.

Russia is in no way in a similar position as Nazi-germany. They have trouble conquering a small part of a neighbouring country. — ChatteringMonkey

Which has been supported by the largest alliance in history, up until Trump. But cut off that aid, and Russia can take Ukraine. And once there's a cease-fire, then Russia can build up in few years the armament that it has lost. Also it drafts hundreds of thousands of conscripts annually.

When Russia says it's at war with NATO and the West, we should understand that he means it.

We need to borrow more money because COVID, because Russia, because climate change, because an aging demographic, because there is allways a reason!

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CAN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA

It's not going to end well. — ChatteringMonkey

Yes, it's not going to end well.

The system is just going to default in some way or another. That simple.
You can default or then you can pay it with inflation.

Whether this trend will continue after Trump's presidency remains to be seen. I'm not convinced that it will. — Tzeentch

And actually Putin has to think the same way here. Yes, the Kremlin can now acknowledge that the US is in line with them, yet Trump's friendliness is only temporary. Hence best to play this as the useful idiot. I don't see how Trump will repair this to be better. He is fixated in his own ideas and there are no safety rails anymore as there were in Trump's first administration, but people around him eager competing in pleasing his whims.

It's also a question of whether the picture the media is trying to sketch corresponds with reality and the views of the average American. — Tzeentch

Well, the country is polarized. That's for sure. Yet I think many simply don't see just what is happening around them. I genuinely think that there are only few if any Americans share Trump's delusions of the grandeur of annexing Canada. And many I guess do think that having allies is a good thing. Or that the Constitution should be followed especially by those in power.

The reason for this is that the overton window has been blown open, especially on cultural issues. So sometimes you can't "come together" and you just need to fight off nasty ideas. I know as a democracy we pride ourselves on tolerance but that tolerance must have a limit. We cannot tolerate the rot that is occuring in our institutions of higher learning. — BitconnectCarlos

I thought you would see it now in Canada, where I assume you are living. It's not about the Overton window been blown open, when you question the sovereignty of a state and it's territory. Culture war issues are totally insignificant and meaningless political discourse compared to questioning the borders of another state, which is similar to summoning up the Devil. It goes far further than any "Overton window" of what things are correct to talk about as it is a clear existential threat one is making. And this was evident when JD Vance gave his infamous speech at Munich, which seems to have been more focused for his MAGA audience back home. The ludicrous idea from Vance that "Russia isn't a threat", but the Culture war issues and the selective idea of "freedom of speech" are the problems of Europe shows clearly this tone deaf and overtly hostile attitude to countries that are really preparing for war. The true colors of the Trump administration have been shown, even if diplomatically everybody is just silent about the issue and hope that this is only a temporary collapse. For now, it's just some random French senator that can tell how things are, that we have a Nero in Washington. But that diplomacy will wear off, if and when Trump continues with his "great television".

So you can repeat all the culture war issues of DEI and the libtard snowflakes in the universities, which are as petty meaningless as burning flags or taking the knee when the national anthem is played compared to the trashing of the security system that have held for 80 years and kept our peace until today. To think that culture war issues are somehow at the same level of issues of war and peace, of German leader saying that Europe has to go independent of the US, or of the Polish leadership is openly discussing getting nuclear weapons, is hilarious. Europe is promising to rearm itself at breakneck speed pouring far more into defense than Russia and China combined. The threat of war is higher than any time of since perhaps the Cuban Missile crisis. The European rearmament started because of Putin, not because of Trump. But yes, now the crescendo in the rearmament is because of Trump, the leader which we cannot trust.

We cannot tolerate the endless streams of illegal immigrants and gang members and sex traffickers making their way into the US. — BitconnectCarlos

And neither do we, even if in your imagination of a libtard Gay Europe you might not perhaps understand that. And it doesn't take a fucking populist fringe party to bring that tougher stance immigration as the MAGA people seem to think.

And we certainly cannot tolerate the idea that anyone can just be any gender/sex they feel without it leading to mass chaos. This is what brought Trump to power. — BitconnectCarlos

And did you vote for Trump to annex Canada, Greenland and Panama? Did you vote for Trump to destroy the alliances actually that have benefited the US, created the Pax Americana, have made NATO countries to stand alongside you when Article 5 was implemented after 9/11? Did you vote for higher prices and economic recession? Because that's what you seem to get now.

Well, exactly. And look how they marketed that as a full blown attempt at a coup d'etat. — Tzeentch

Exactly. It wasn't a planned autocoup, because then Trump would have prepared for it. Now he just through something of a Hail Mary pass at the last moment. Now the Secret Service drove Trump to the White House against his wishes where he watched in awe as his supporters stormed the Capitol. Was that inappropriate? Hell yes. Quite more than vandalism against Tesla cars.

It's perfectly appropriate to see this in the context of political violence/intimidation, but of course "the other side" is categorically unable to acknowledge their own wrongs.

It's partisan through and through. — Tzeentch

Indeed. And this is why everything is going to hell in a hand basket, as they say.

And people will be in shock if and when the violence erupts. All you need is a few people with a self loading rifles feeling they are under attack and decide to shoot back. And then you have people killed because of politics and that will be normalized. Have we just forgotten the George Floyd riots during the prior Donald Trump administration? Then it was blacks rioting because of police action. Now just how worse it will be when the rioting is against the Trump administration? Jan 6th rioters would die for their President. Do not underestimate their dedication.

Your inability to tell the difference between vandalism by angry people and the storming of a parliamentary hearing buttressed by right wing activists waving confederate flags and other seccessionist movements, where the new President would be inaugurated is telling. — Benkei

But this is the real problem here.

That crowd you are talking about is in power. It's the base that Trump listens to, because Trump isn't trying to build any bridges here to anybody else. Do you really think they wouldn't stand up for their President, if asked to? When Trump would declare that the deep state is there to overthrow the Trump presidency?

And I'll just repeat it here. Canadians are the example of what happens when Trump simply just dismisses the fact that polite neighbors might really get angry from his ideas. Not even the MAGA people themselves take the idea of annexing Canada and Greenland seriously, but Canada and Greenlanders and naturally the Danes do take this seriously. They that are confronted with Trump's hostility, will notice every Mark Rutte that simply laughs away the matter when Trump starts talking about annexing territories from it's allies. They won't see it as this some kind of Professional Wrestling excessive hyperbole that is just show. They will see it as reality, as Trump won't back down.

They take all the bullshit from Trump quite seriously. This is a way that really the serious polarization happens, because if an ultimate sign of hostility is to talk about annexation, then the ultimate act of hostility against a democracy is to question and not care about the separation of the powers and the US Constitution.

What if it were Trump supporters doing something like this? Would you think the same way? — Tzeentch

It's not a what if. January 6th happened.



I think you don't get it. The US is going off a cliff. The toxic populism of Trump will get people to oppose him and there is nothing to calm things down. The polarization and the divide will just increase more. Trump has a loyal base and that will stand with him to the end and Trump, just as he was before in his earlier administration, only concentrated on it. Trump will just anger more and more his opposition, just like he has enraged the Canadians. For the Canadians it isn't just a trade war, Trump himself is a threat to the country. In the US Trump will continue disregard totally the separation of powers, and with the likely stagflation, he will make things worse. Trump wants to change things rapidly in such pace that it will end up in a chaotic mess.

Vandalism against a private company is already portrayed as domestic terrorism shows what the response will be and how Trump will respond to political protests against him. Of course, this is really is self defeating, because the tough stance against any protests will just increase the fears that people have against Trump. And add to that the dire economic situation, which will just get worse.

You see, in a functioning democracy when the shit really hits the fan, the political parties can put political competition aside and work together. I've seen it now twice in my country, with the opposition coming full on to side of the administration and politicians reacting extremely quickly in unison. First with the Pandemic, then with Putin's attack on February 24th 2022 attack. The American response to the Pandemic is here quite telling. Did it unify the country? No, of course not, it just increased the political polarization and distrust in the government. And that polarization is just going on, continuing, just increasing it's speed...



Americans are losing their ability to come together. Populism does this as it partitions people. Even if they would be hit by a meteorite or the goddam Yellowstone supervolcano would erupt, this wouldn't get the Americans to get together. The efforts of individual people would surely be praised, but likely there wouldn't be rallying to your government in this case. The political infighting would continue. We already have seen how Trump confronted the pandemic.

It's very first principles are wrong. Like in history when guys started questioning Euclidean postulates? — Gregory

How are the very first principles of calculus wrong? What are you talking about?

Actually you give a perfect example of something not being wrong, but simply limited. It's not that Euclid was wrong, it simply was the case that not everything fell into his understanding of geometry. Root cause was that geometry on a plane and on a sphere are simply different. And you might have to think of geometry of a sphere. That's it. Yet the geometry on a plane is still correct. Hence the error is if one thinks that all geometry happens on a plane. Thus there is Euclidian geometry and non-euclidian geometry (spherical or hyperbolic etc).



Actually, what example would really be false was the Greek idea that "All numbers are rational". And the idea why people believed it was so was because... math is so beautiful. Well, there are irrational numbers. The Greeks found them, and they weren't happy about it. Yet that idea really was a genuine error.

And I think that the idea that "there is no infinity in mathematics" is simply wrong. Similar to the latter example "all numbers are rational". That you only stick to finite mathematics is another thing. Ok, do that. But then what you can do in mathematics is limited.

Wonderful take on Trump's and Putin's phonecalls:

It's useful, not true. — Gregory

Not true, but useful?

Ok, that really doesn't make any sense. Calculus is a part of mathematics and totally accepted. Please don't start to argue that Calculus is not true.

I've presented at least 5 cogent arguments against infinity — Gregory

No, you haven't been at all convincing. I'm afraid that you don't simply get it.

You can't seem to recognise that the responses you are receiving actually answer your questions. It's odd. But it's not about maths, it's about you. — Banno

I think I have to agree here with @Banno. Don't want to be harsh here.

Then answer my arguments — Gregory

I did answer your arguments. Just in the last response I wrote you. Infinite is different from the finite. If you start from a finite situation, now wonder you have problems to understand the infinite.

Why couldn't its foundations be wrong? — Gregory

Hopefully you do notice that calculus is very, very useful in physics or economics etc. It does answer correctly to many real world problems, that can be calculated by using calculus.

For me, one way is to look at the history of mathematics, how new ideas have been responded to, how from one thing we have gotten to another. This way, the theorems aren't taken just as a given.

If you look at the history of calculus, you see the obvious foundational problems it has had. From Newton himself and Leibniz. Yet if your argument is that infinity doesn't exist, then basically calculus wouldn't exist.

But this is a different story to the one we started with. — Banno

Yeah, but I guess everyone should understand the connection that infinity and an infinitesimal has. (Or limits)

The very first step of the video i question. If all the rooms are filled you can't move 1 to 2 and 3 to room 4 because all the infinite rooms are already filled. — Gregory

That would be true if there would be a finite number of rooms. Then the person in the last room would find there's no room for him or her. But it's an infinite hotel. There is no last room.

If there would be a last room, guess what? The hotel would have finite amount of rooms.

Your problem is that you simply don't understand the concept of infinity, so it's quite futile for me to show that these are mathematical proofs, not just my opinions. You see, calculus exists. Infinity is a very useful and logical concept and is used a lot in mathematics. Modern set theory has infinity as an axiom.

I totally understand it's really puzzling. A lot of the brightest minds in the history of math found this very puzzling. Galileo Galilei was one of the first people to point this. (See Galileo's Paradox)

Oh a few cars set on fire. Poor billionaire, boo woo.

Anyone remember the attack on the Capitol? “No one died! It’s just some property damage.”

Anyone die from the Tesla vandalism? No. “Domestic terrorism!”

It’s just so easy. Who can take partisan trolls seriously? Even if they PRETENDED to have principles, maybe they wouldn’t be so easy to spot. — Mikie

Our partisan troll takes it very seriously. It's not arson or vandalism, this is 9/11 level terrorism, and thus the perpetrators ought to be handled like terrorists. Although even he lives in Canada, where he should see what an impact Trump's condescending behavior stirred up with those "nasty" Canadians, he won't see where Trump is leading the US.

This will just get worse.

King Donald is just drooling for the opportunity to go after the "domestic terrorists", protesters that dare to oppose his reign. As the economy goes south thanks to the tariffs and Trump uncertainty, the US is on a collision course that will create the epic trainwreck.

Ah yes, @NOS4A2's domestic terrorists:

It’s already law. — NOS4A2

Democrats forced to buy Tesla's? Wow!

Do you guys fire-bomb Ladas to get back at Putin? — NOS4A2

Lol.

A Lada is a very rare vehicle in Finland. They all were bought back to Russia when the borders opened. And guess what, it's not the most durable and long lasting car. Mainly collectors have Ladas in Finland.

Yes, when the second-in-command Elon Musk's cars are vandalized, it's the job of the US Attorney General Pam Blondi to act and make the charges! :snicker:

Why don't the Republicans make it into law that every democrat thinking of buying a new car has to buy a Tesla? At least Donald could make an executive order of that. Because Elon needs help!!!!!



Still proudly wearing that MAGA hat when you go to the supermarket in Canada, NOS? :wink:

What am I missing? — Gregory

Again, if you can start with 1, 2, and 3 and move the 2 to one and the 3 to 2 ect. you could also take a segment parallel to the whole numbers and move each point down to the left like you did before and assume it's all good at the other infinite end, like you did trying to prove the even numbers are equal to the whole numbers. Also, doesn't this violate the principle that the whole is greater than the part? — Gregory

Uh, nope.

OK, let's try another way. I assume (from the above) you know the idea of the Hilbert Hotel works. Please watch this video (only six minutes!), it sums up perfectly the uncountable infinite and Cantor's diagonal argument. And just why sometimes the Hilbert Hotel cannot accomodate every possibility of guests.



Basically this is what in the earlier link I gave you was told in theorem 1.20 of the uncountability of the reals. But for me the above video is more easier to understand.