but they are not different — dazed

By experiences they are. I was raised in an environment where my mother was an activist and racially conscious. I’ve personally experienced racism not just from whites, but other ethnic groups. My experiences differentiate me from the many of you here because I can probably bet that all of you have not experienced what I have, and vice versa.

and the language you use highlights that that's where it all begins — dazed

The existence of racism, it’s sustainability, and it’s perennial influence in society does not solely rest in language alone that is the whole point. Racism is also an experience. Racism is also behavioral.

if we truly teach them the reality that there are no racial categories of humans then racism would end eventually as children would grow into adults who did not see races but only saw faces — dazed

We are not at the point yet in human existence. First off we just need to treat each other with respect. Equality is the key. People need to see each other as equals in humanity before we can discuss the particulars of racial categorization.

but I suspect you actually believe in racial categories (but use more palatable language like ethnicity instead of race) so again my suggestion wouldn't make sense to you — dazed

No because your suggestion is quite stupid and others here have told you racism is beyond language. We cannot simply start with language alone. We simply cannot ignore it as you’ve tried to do with the Morgan Freeman video. You see, there lies the crux of the issue. When I have discussions with some of my white college buddies on race they love to use me. Freeman as a go to reference because, what it tells me is that white people in the United States at least most are, are uncomfortable with acknowledging the dark history behind American colonialism.

So while we all always talk about never forgetting 9/11, people want to avoid discussing racism. This is why many like yourself use Morgan Freeman because you see him as a black man that thinks like you because one black man that thinks like you is a representation of validity. No. Getting rid of racism doesn’t just start with language or forgetting our pigmentation. Getting rid of racism is generational, and it begins by teaching future generations that we are all a part of the same family and that we all are equal. However knowing that I will prepare my kids to know they’re black because we have yet lived in a society that will see them as equal parts of the same species. I invite you to watch this:

Black people aren’t only portrayed negatively, and white people are portrayed negatively as well. — Pinprick

Globally, whites are portrayed favorably. Ask Indians of India. Ask the Japanese and other cultures what pigmentation would they like to be or are encouraged to be?

How can you be so sure? — Pinprick

Because you said:

I believe that black people do intentionally dress in a way to intentionally appear intimidating more often than white people. — Pinprick

How do you differentiate between a racial bias and a clothing(?) bias? — Pinprick

See above....You...said...black people....You said black people....that means me, my friends from college...everyone that identifies as black.......You did not say some, or those in your community, you said black people.

I don’t live in an impoverished urban community, — Pinprick

Then where does your issues regarding clothing in relation to black people come from? I mean whites dress a certain aggressive way, Asians, Arabs, and other people dress in a certain aggressive way why do you single out black people if you don't live in an impoverished community because I wonder where it comes from?

There’s basically no black people where I live — Pinprick

So why do you fear black people who dress in a particular clothing?

It wasn’t meant to be offensive, but I’m not claiming that only black people do this, or that all black people do this. Well, my example wasn’t strictly about clothing — Pinprick

You need to formulate your words differently between black people, some black people, or black people you know or are around.

Right, but gangs are often racially or ethnically grouped. — Pinprick

Sure based on demographics.

So, we have specific gangs whose members are of a specific race/ethnicity, and have a specific style. What then should the default assumption be when I see someone of this specific ethnicity/race exhibiting this specific style? — Pinprick

A gang member nothing more. MS-13 is a Salvadorian gang but that is not an accurate representation of people who live in El Salvador. It is a gang nothing more.

I never insinuated that they were. — Pinprick

But you have when you said "Black people" instead of saying some or those who you live with.

Right again, but that’s precisely what I’m doing; judging someone’s personality, intentions, etc. based on their clothing. — Pinprick

No you're not because you keep saying black people. Not some, nor those who you live around, but black people. That was a general statement you've made.

Isn’t that what I’m doing in this thread? Exposing my prejudices so that they can be acknowledged and categorized accordingly? — Pinprick

You are. I'm just giving you a perspective as a black man and how it appears to me.

A unhealthy physical lifestyle leads to an unhealthy mind — praxis

That’s part of it but that is not the entire issue

Because he was being taunted with "where's your white hood?" — praxis

Right and so of all comebacks and possible satire why would you validate a heckler’s claim by saying white power?

But let’s focus on why some anti-Trump protestors feel this way. Well, first we can start with Trump’s daddy being involved in a KKK riot. Then we can mention the Central Park 5. Then we can discuss his housing practices to which he was sued for, all the way to his birtherism accusation which was inherently racist.

Knowing that, people still support him and still give him the benefit of doubt. Then we can look at his majority base which was dubbed the “silent majority.” Many of whom did not like a black man in office for 8 years regardless whether you liked Obama or not. They hung effigy’s if Obama. They made pictures of Obama, his wife and kids as apes.

They challenged Obama’s citizenship. Not to mention in Charlottesville a white supremacist killed another white person because she stood on the right side of history. That is why hecklers who are anti-Trump, say such things because majority of his base (not all) subscribe to his white nationalist rhetoric.

Why does the Miami Herald suspect that he may have been sarcastic? Is the Miami Herald racist? — praxis

The Miami Herald is not the only news outlet you do realize Trump has faced backlash in the media?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1232356

There are more media outlets than Miami Herald because apparently it wasn’t taken as satire

And what if it turns out that Stokes was being sarcastic, would the probability of me seeing racism improve at all? Sorry if that’s an awkward question but your logic is still unclear. — praxis

I don’t see someone at a senior citizen’s complex where nothing but the elderly some who are protesting, why would a man state “white power” for sarcasm? It makes no damn sense. It also doesn’t make sense how you could conceive it to be sarcasm in the first place.

How exactly did you reach that conclusion? — praxis

Because you said this:

Looks like the guy saying "white power" is being sarcastic, and quite frankly his sarcasm is warranted, given the behavior of the anti-Trumpers. Lots of nasty old retirees in Florida, apparently. — praxis

And this:

That’s my honest impression, though I could be wrong. — praxis

It was quite wrong

you won't need equal opportunity for "races" if there are no "races" — dazed

False. If that were true Jim Crow wouldn't exist. If that were true, then the civil rights movement wouldn't exist.

If we all stop using words like "black" "white" etc and teach our children that those are bad words then racism will end in a few generations. — dazed

Wrong. Kids need to know they are different. Kids need to know their ethnic background. I agree that terms like "black" and "white" are social constructs and aren't scientifically accurate to describe human groups however there is essentially nothing wrong with being black and white, and because we don't live in a society where humanity is primary and all others are secondary it is good for kids to know their distinctive qualities.

If there are no categories, there can be no opportunity for differential treatment based on those categories — dazed

True, but that is theoretical. We aren't an androgynous society therefore categorization is a consequence of language.

then if you really want to end racism then simply stop using words like black white etc. — dazed

This is not realistic and it doesn't address the problem. Simply not using terms alone doesn't end racism as racism is taught and behavioral. We need to teach generations to value each others as members of the same human family.

Recent horrible events have brought to the forefront the issue of racism, and if you are truly concerned, start with your language, and teach others to move this way. Just stop using colour words you will soon see how your own conceptual framework leaves no room to be racist. — dazed

This doesn't work. I wish people stop using Morgan Freeman because all that tells me is some whites are just merely uncomfortable engaging discussions on racism hence is why many agree with him. Ridding ourselves of racism is beyond simply stop using words.

You’ve been trained to see racism where there is none — DingoJones

Ok....

I haven’t had any particularly negative experiences with black people, and formed a very close friendship with a black person. I even had a black girlfriend at one time. — Pinprick

Sounds like you have some inherent racial bias. Whether you want to admit it or not societal stimuli which imparts negative cultural impressions in this case against black people have surely invaded your subconscious.

For example, I don’t believe that if I passed Barack Obama in the street I would have this reaction, as opposed to, say, The Game (rapper). That said, perhaps my “racism” isn’t actually related to race. I mean, the reason why I react this way to a certain look can be attributed to any number of things; the portrayal of black people in media, rap music, etc. Or maybe it’s my fears are warranted in some way? — Pinprick

See above post....Perhaps there are levels in racial bias based on your comfort. Regardless of clothing there is an internal racial bias on your part that is subconscious, however these internal biases may become apparent based on living in an impoverished urban community. Perhaps you're making the associations of what you see in media with where you live.

I believe that black people do intentionally dress in a way to intentionally appear intimidating more often than white people. — Pinprick

This is quite offensive. I'm a black man. I'm a professional social worker and I'd be damned if I dress in a way that not only invokes fear but police attention. Again you may have retained some prejudices you haven't really acknowledged and by the above quote, it is quite clear. I am not even sure what "intimidating clothes" looks like considering the style of urban wear are changing.

It seems obvious that certain fashion choices are strongly associated with gangs, or “thug” personality types; facial tattoos, bandannas, loud colored clothing, certain hairstyles, etc. After all, there are certainly very few gangsters/thugs who dress like Obama on a regular basis. — Pinprick

Clothing styles may also reflect a social trend, style associated with where one lives or what is considered "in" at the time. No doubt colored bandannas and tattoos associated with their color may have gang references but that is a gang affiliation thing not an ethnic culture thing. Black Americans or all Africans of the diaspora are not homogeneous nor are we a monolith. Obamas dress style reflects his professionalism and his standard of living. Often times clothing reflects where we live, who were are personality wise, where we are in life.

Am I a racist? — Pinprick

No. But I think you have some unacknowledged racial prejudices as I've indicated in the above.

Looks like the guy saying "white power" is being sarcastic, and quite frankly his sarcasm is warranted, given the behavior of the anti-Trumpers. Lots of nasty old retirees in Florida, apparently. — praxis

Hardly sarcasm.

That’s my honest impression, though I could be wrong. — praxis

You're probably one of those people who don't think racism exists because you don't see it.

That’s my honest impression, though I could be wrong. — praxis

It was quite wrong

I'm curious what you guys think of this:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-white-power-retweet-set-011126104.html

For those that support Trump if you've ever questioned whether Trump was a racist this video and him retweeting it and glorifying it clearly shows where he stands.

And then ask yourself why you were so sure what I was saying was bullshit. — DingoJones

Because it was because you did not substantiate anything to support your opinion.

Recognise how closed off you’ve become to anything that doesnt fit your comfy narrative. — DingoJones

I'm definitely not closed off. Apparently you don't know me that well. If I believe in something I do not simply subscribe to the herd mentality. I actually research any particular movement, religion, political organization etc so with respect to BLM, I'm quite aware of their goals.

I didnt repeat right wing or white supremest talking points — DingoJones

Sure you did because these are talking points that are typically used by white supremacists and right wing talking heads for example, according to the Los Angeles Times:

"Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (who did not lose his lazy certainty) spent the weekend attacking the Black Lives Matter movement as “racist.” He wants people to focus on the fact that most black murder victims die at the hands of other blacks."

Source:https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-dallas-conservative-black-lives-matter-20160711-snap-story.html

I highlight the above as a common talking point conservatives use to deflect from the problem concerning police brutality which has an intersectional effect on race. Or the typical talking point of someone who proclaims that "white privilege" doesn't exist because "they grew up poor." Reflecting this, as one article has put it:

"American culture conditions white folk to not fully grasp how society privileges them. They are surrounded by the pieces of the puzzle. But they have been miseducated on how to complete the image that portrays their racial group in an unflattering light."

Source:https://theundefeated.com/features/why-do-so-many-white-people-deny-the-existence-of-white-privilege/

As stated previously, all are common talking points that reflects the disingenuous, ignorant as well as right leaning ideology of confronting the problem of race, white privilege, and systemic racism. As David R. Williams professor of African-American studies put it:

“When you lack empathy for a population, you don’t feel their suffering, and you do not support policies to … address the challenges the population faces.”

In this he cites, which I wholeheartedly agree, that many Americans "underestimate racial inequities, and some among those who are aware of inequality blame minorities themselves. Citing national data from 2015, he said that 50 percent of white Americans believe that discrimination is as bad against whites as it is against people of color. In addition, while a majority of Americans seem to understand that hard work does not guarantee success, a full 50 percent of whites believe that people of color would be more successful “if they only tried harder.”

Source:https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/06/facing-the-denial-of-american-racism/

The latter, another common talking point which many whites in the conservative right tend to parrot a lot in racial discussions.

I got that right from the BLM co-founder. — DingoJones

I need you to cite a source not "I got that from the BLM founder" however, I found what you claimed according to the New York Post:

"Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report."

Source:https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

However, according to the post, she also expresses appreciation for the work of the US Communist Party, Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970's. But I'm not sure how the co-founders belief waters down the efforts of Black Lives Matter movement. I believe clearly she was describing not only her political ideology but her ability of being trained in grassroots organization.

Now ask yourself about the other things I said, and instead of operating under the presumption im some sort of uncle tom race traitor or a white supremest based on words that trigger you try operating under the presumption that i might (might...thats a low bar) be saying something true or worth hearing. — DingoJones

If you say so.

If a white supremest says the sky is blue, and I say the sky is blue does that mean Im repeating white supremest talking points? — DingoJones

Well, if a white supremacist says "All blacks have low IQ" and you follow through with some sort of research to validate that claim then pretty much you're attempting to validate a white supremacist talking point. Or, if a white supremacist says "Stop-And-Frisk is justified because blacks have an affinity for criminal behavior" then you follow through with crime statistics of criminal activity in urban communities, you are by virtue of that action trying to justify a white supremacist talking point. That is not me saying you're racist but you are dangerously close to being labeled one if you try and justify white supremacist beliefs.

Its not ok to group someone in with evil people just because they say something youre not comfortable hearing, and thats what I found offensive. — DingoJones

I don't know you which is why I stopped short of proclaiming the racist label. I politely remind you that I'm quite familiar with common opinions in regards to the current subject matter. In many discussions especially among those who have racist beliefs they say something similar. Now, if you do truly believe the way you do it would be best to substantiate future claims with some sort of source. But if all we are doing is just using anecdotes then it boils down to opinion however those opinions could be internal biases.

I'm all up for agree to disagree discussions, but for far too long I've been in debates with many people who hold internal biases against blacks and other communities of color. I've also been in discussion with people of color most recently an Indian from India who tried to justify racism against blacks because as I've mentioned before, they like to use crime statistics as if we naturally have an affinity for criminal activity all-the-while ignoring the colorism and caste system that is oppressive in his own community. Again, this goes all the way back to people using common racist talking points to justify their opinion.

Lastly, I apologize if I've offended you. You must forgive me that I tend to get on defense mode when discussing this subject matter. I've become used to having to defend my position as a black man because since the age of 13 (I'm 38 now) I've had to encounter online racism. I've encounter online racism and anti-black rhetoric than I have encountered intellectual/philosophical discussions which is quite sad.

My apologies for this long post for the sake of preventing misunderstanding I hope you read it all.

I find this characterisation offensive. Thats not what Im doing. Good day sir. — DingoJones

I call it how I see it.

“Systemic racism doesn’t exist” it’s a bullshit term

“Whites privilege doesn’t exist”

If all you can provide are anecdotal claims with substantive evidence to show why it’s bullshit then of course conversation is over. I mean you proclaimed that the women who confounded BLM are Marxist. BLM is incompatible with Marxism so I know what you said was bullshit and more than likely got that info from a far right website or some far right talking point

the response is going to be much different, its going to justify social control. — DingoJones

How so? Help me understand. If by social control are you referring to changing the social paradigm? I mean we can say the civil rights movement was a form of social control.

So mis-labelling the problem as systemic racism will result in unjustified social control. — DingoJones

Still not following this....

If I see Stop-and-Frisk that targets specifically people of color and if such policies only produce 2-3% of actual criminal activity and or produce illegal weapons, drugs, etc then there is a constitutional problem. Let me share a video with you to help you understand:

The Black Lives Matter founders freely admit and our proud to say that they are “trained Marxists”. — DingoJones

Evidence? Please provide an objective source! Considering the platform of BLM is quite progressive and multiethnic I find it being Marxist quite difficult to believe and incompatible.

White privilege” is a bullshit term too — DingoJones

Of course to an ignorant white person ignorant of history

Same with the way “racism” is now defined as “prejudice plus power”, a bullshit definition so people can be openly racist and not have to worry about being called a racist. — DingoJones

Now you’re sounding ridiculous. Definitions change. There is clear historical evidence that racism especially racism propagated by white supremacy is more than simply a disdain for one’s phenotype. It was systemic we can Er per reconstruction era as well as Jim Crow.

Im not a white person, — DingoJones

Ok. I’m quite familiar with people who are of color that promote white supremacist rhetoric and although I am not identifying you as one, you’re talking points are dangerously close to the rhetoric they espouse.

My unawareness was in regards to the existence of explicitly racial policies in America, which may exist beyond what I know. — NOS4A2

Ok. I can respect that. There is information that I can provide that can give you a glimpse that such exist. We can start with Stop-and-Frisk which the Supreme Court ruled as unconstitutional.

you're a full-blown racist? — Judaka

And where did you get that idea?

You treat people entirely different based on their skin colour and you admit it freely. — Judaka

No I don’t. I am wary of some whites sure because I’ve been treated differently in my history. That doesn’t mean I am going to treat all whites as if they’re my enemy. I let all individuals have the opportunity to hang themselves.

If you want to afford me privilege because of my skin color be my guest. But I reject it. — NOS4A2

No. Not affording anything except that the rhetoric that you espoused and your self admission of unawareness is apparent that your privilege, which is such that you do not experience that I, and other 45 million (plus or minus) blacks experience and have experienced are unaware or try not to be aware or reject the notion that such exists.

None of those policies explicitly discriminate between races (as far as I’m aware). — NOS4A2

Of course you aren’t aware such is the life of the privileged and the ignorant. Normally I’d post articles and studies but considering I’ve heard that type of rhetoric before, and have wasted my time, I am not going to start again

I was going to make a separate post but I think I’ll just post it here as it relates to the subject matter. What do you all make of what Morgan Freeman said in the following?



Now, judging by the amount of videos on YouTube from different people titling it “Morgan Freeman solves racism in 30 seconds” clearly these videos and their high volume of thumbs up, I’d have to subscribe to the thought as Jane Elliot would put it, is that whites who are uncomfortable discussing racism and the issues that afflict minority communities are totally in agreement with Freeman because it takes away the realization that it exists and that the systemic oppression that extends from white supremacy.

The usual defense to deflecting in discussing racism and systemic oppression usually is followed by

“There is no racism we had a black president”

“There is no racism there are multimillionaire black athletes.”

“There is no racism because there are successful Indian politicians.”

Ironically how 1% of talented and successful as well as rich black athletes tends to be tantamount to no racism. Or similarly, how successful politicians of color equates to somehow there is no racism or systemic racism. This ultimately goes back to what Jane Elliot says in a posted video by a member here that because whites are privileged, they’re incapable of perceiving racism through the eyes of the other because in their mind they think we’re all equal “if I can be successful and apply myself so can you” type of attitude.

I wholeheartedly disagree with Mr Freeman here. I cannot simply ignore something that is both blatant and indirect. I too face racism everyday in my professional career. Some people teach their kids racism and those kids grow up in positions of power that can affect the latter generations of people of color.

Exactly

I am late but great read very well written

You should look up Jane Elliot’s brown eyed blue eyed study

Not all whites are racist. Some will treat you and your children with respect... — creativesoul

I believe we’re both on the same page it’s just my words perhaps are just constructed the wrong way or my meaning is somehow escaping through my efforts. I guess what I am trying to say is that by imbuing racial caution, and because society may never get to the point of being egalitarian I am afraid that I could instill some sort of mental “self-fulfilling” prophecy.

For example my mother, well, I want to say most black parents in the inner city teach their children how to conduct themselves with regards to law enforcement. Now, notice I said “most” because I know there are a few outliers. Naturally, instead of being instilled with the sense of protection and trust in police, it was mostly instilling in me a sense authority and fear. Because of the early experiences of black people dealing with the police, there is that caution, mistrust, and dislike.

Similarly I am very careful around whites. And yes, like you said not all are racist and I am well aware of that, but my experiences not only outside the internet but on the internet. Whether it’s video games, social media, or discussion boards I am continuously bombarded with the realization that I am not seen as a human being but as a less than desirable.

Which effects of which policies? — NOS4A2

Healthcare, law enforcement policies (e.g Stop-and-Frisk) the education system, justice system.

Then we call that “residual effects of those policies”, not “systemic racism”. — DingoJones

No. Because these “residual effects” are embedded in different facets of society such as racism in healthcare, economics, policing etc.

Calling it systemic racism drastically alters the problem and shifts the response to, perhaps coincidently perhaps not, unjustified social/political control. — DingoJones

No it does not. If I’m identifying a problem how am I altering the response? For example if I see racial bias in healthcare and I identify the physician response time as well as admissions rate/discharge between black patients and white patients and I notice a discrepancy in healthcare practice which favors more white patients it is indeed something that should be address.

Race doesnt really matter to anyone except the minorities of racists and people who think everyone is a racist. — DingoJones

This is simply ridiculous. If racism didn’t matter the civil rights movement wouldn’t exist. If racism didn’t matter we wouldn’t have done away with Jim Crow. If racism didn’t matter, at-will employers wouldn’t fire employees for making racist comments on social media. Racism and the discussion of it matters because it still affects many minorities and there still exist a stigma attached to many minority communities.

Also addressing the “everyone is racist” trope is a typical response to those who are not empathetic to the plight of minority communities who are dealing with racism. However, it is also the same talking point many of those of the deniers of “whites privilege” use to deflect from real social issues many minorities create.

Everyone else gets it, race is mostly irrelevant. — DingoJones

No, everyone doesn’t get it. But I’m sure indirectly you’re saying in effect everyone perhaps white who thinks like you get it. Not to presume YOUR ethnicity per se but again, this is a typical talking point.

Are you not using statistics of cops killing blacks as evidence that all cops are racist, or at least most of them are? — Harry Hindu

No. Actually it is to demonstrate that blacks are targeted and that there exist racial bias in policing citizens.

How do you know that the level of racism I've experienced isn't comparable to what you have experienced? — Harry Hindu

Pray tell share your story

Where are the stats showing that doctors are allowing more blacks to die in the emergency room than whites? — Harry Hindu

Are you talking about racial bias in the healthcare field? There is research on that.

You are assuming your conclusion if you claim that everytime a black and white person come into conflict it has to be because of racism. — Harry Hindu

Nope. Never said that nor implied.

Then BLM used the wrong name for their institution. It implies that All Black Lives Matter, but then you just explained that it doesn't mean that, so it is more of a political agenda than a movement to actually save black lives. — Harry Hindu

Apparently you are unaware that BLM is beyond the nationalism that many right-wing think tanks believe it to be.

But that cannot be argued for those who never suffered through such policy, and I do not think it can be shown that everyone of that skin-color suffered through such policy. — NOS4A2

What about though of us who suffer from the residual effects of such policies?

Yet, this seems like something that you're no proud of... as if it is something that you do not want to perpetuate. — creativesoul

Yes, for more reasons than I can list here. But to be direct, my parents never raised me to be racist nor a bigot, and that humanity is the species to which I belong. However, given the racism my parents have experienced they’ve instilled the thought in me that regardless of my own beliefs I will not always be treated as an American and much less as a human being by every white person. Due to my own personal experiences with racism it has validated that and because of that, I fear passing this on to my children.

It is an undeniable sign of the times. We are all fed up with it. It has no place in a society built upon the founding principles of a representative form of government.
3d — creativesoul

Indeed.

I believe Judas was both the hero and anti-hero. In essence he sacrificed his character in the story by being the betrayer of a purely good man. However I believe it is important to note for spiritual currency sake, that Judas’ actions (according to Christian text) that he (Judas) positioned himself so that Jesus created a spiritual checkmate through his betrayal.

Again, systemic racism does not mean that all cops are racist or there are explicitly racist rules in place in government bureaucracies or that white people don't also suffer from the failings of certain systems. It does mean that certain systems function in a way (often despite explicit intent) to disfavour communities of colour. — Baden

And I believe this hits the nail on the head. However, during the downtime at work I’ll be glad to look over your links. I’m sure there is some very good information there.

It seems to me that any law or provision that favors some races to the exclusion of others is both racist and systemic. — NOS4A2

Laws have been doing that for centuries and decades in the United States which is why there is an economic gap between whites and blacks. For example, the only reason why certain minority groups that migrate to the United States and are successful is because of the civil rights campaign. So not only minorities were fighting for equality they were still left behind and even after amendments and equitable provisions have passed, black Americans still found themselves behind.

This is ultimately why affirmative action existed to at least in part tried to close the gap by providing equitable opportunities that wasn’t fairly provided before.

I agree. The battlefield is much larger than what we see our on home front

But we're talking about the present, not the past. — Harry Hindu

The past sometimes leads to the present, hence is why civil rights movement existed. Hence is why we have modified laws in the Jim Crow era to make it equitable for all people in the present. However this doesn't change the fact that their stories are very important to remember.

I noticed that you didn't mention yourself here. If your parents and grand-parents still experience racism, then show us so that we can call out the racists together. — Harry Hindu

My parents and grand-parents have passed on due to cancer and other ailments so I cannot show you anything. I've experienced racism myself. I've also experienced racial profiling. Of course the level of racism I've experienced is incomparable to what my parents and grand-parents experienced.

Calling all whites and cops racist just makes you a hypocrite while insulting the people you are trying to convince, and I'm not interested in promoting hypocrisy. — Harry Hindu

Ok and where in my post have I done this?

I am interested in promoting an end to hating people that are different than you, but being that isn't what you are doing, you are doing the opposite, then I'm not interested. — Harry Hindu

Ok again where are you getting this from in my post? I'm confused how you came to this understanding.

Notice how twice as many whites are killed by police than blacks. — Harry Hindu

Yes because whites composed of 60.4% of the United States population it's really not rocket science here.

Why wasn't anyone marching in the streets after just one white person was killed, — Harry Hindu

You'd have to ask the Caucasian community.

but only after a black person was killed. Essentially two whites were killed for every black and more blacks are killed by other blacks than killed by police or whites. This has been pointed out several times but is ignored. You need to be more intellectually honest if you expectothers to agree with you. — Harry Hindu

I'm not interested in your agreement. In fact after reading your exchange with @Baden it was infinitely clear to me you weren't interested in looking outside your own biases. Now again whites comprise of 60.4% of the population which is why more whites are killed but per capita, more African-Americans are twice as likely to be killed by cops despite being 13% of the population. Also there is documented evidence of police racial bias through studies that have been done which is why some have called for training and education on correcting racial bias in policing.

It seems that you are forgetting all the crimes committed against blacks by other blacks, even in Africa before whites came with a need for slaves. — Harry Hindu

Ok, what goes on in Africa and the United States are different situations because whatever is in Africa you'd have to highlight a specific country and specific situation and relate it to the current topic. Something that is tribal based on a corrupt government is a lot different than what is going on here in the states. Just because two parties are both black doesn't mean their issues are the same.

If Black Lives Matter, then what about those blacks killed by other blacks which far outnumber the lives taken by whites or cops? — Harry Hindu

Black Lives Matter specifically focuses on the issues regarding injustice in relation to police brutality and the issues concerning the lack of transparency in police conduct in relation to communities of color. This has nothing to do with crime in the inner city. We all know crime happens in the inner city and plenty of grassroots movements are there speaking out against it. Again, violence in the black community has nothing to do with BLM rather its focus is on the unjust treatment of black Americans, however the BLM movement is very broad beyond the scope of nationalism at this point.

Black Lives Matter isn't interested in saving black lives. They are interested in promoting an ideology. — Harry Hindu

"With the movement’s attention comes a familiar refrain: Why doesn’t Black Lives Matter focus on “black-on-black” crime? When a civilian has committed a violent crime, they’re generally arrested, tried and then convicted,” Franchesca Ramsey, a writer and activist who discusses race, explains in the MTV series Decoded.

Conversely, there’s a lot of evidence that it’s very rare to secure an indictment against a police officer for excessive force. And an indictment is just a trial; it isn’t even a conviction.”

“Black Lives Matter" isn’t just about the loss of life, which is always terrible. It’s about the lack of consequences when black lives are taken at the hands of police.......


While nearly twice as many white Americans were killed by on-duty officers than blacks, the Post’s updated data showed, black Americans remained 2.5 times as likely to die at the hands of police when adjusting for population.

And when unarmed, the data showed that black Americans were five times as likely to be fatally shot as white ones."

See:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/

All Lives Matter, not just Black Lives. — Harry Hindu

If that were true, BLM wouldn't exist.

If you were an intelligent person then you'd realize that you are being a hypocrite. If is it wrong for me to making generalizations based on statistical evidence, then it is wrong for you to do as well when it comes to police and whites. — Harry Hindu

Where have I made a generalization about whites and the police? Where in my words have I done this outside the sources I've listed? Can you quote the exact words where I've made these generalizations?

Yeah I see how they treated Meghan Markle

@Nuke You proposed in your thread:

PROPOSAL: Every black American and American Indian should be provided totally free education (tuition, books, living expenses, everything) for any educational experience which can boost their income earning potential. This plan should continue until such time as the vast wealth gap between these groups and whites is erased. The plan should be funded by the richest 1%, that is, those who have most of the money and who have benefited most from America's rigged system.

I appreciate you starting your own thread concerning race and wanting us to present some proposals (or theories) on how we can eradicate racism. Let me be the first to say that although I commend your efforts in the above proposal, I must (with sincere regret) disagree. I've had a similar disagreement with members among the ADOS (African Descendants Of Slaves) camp. For one, it would be hard to convince 60.4% of white Americans especially those of the 1% to dedicate trillions of dollars specifically for Black Americans, to help them close the economic gap when there are many among the white demographic that do not believe such a gap much less systemic racism (or racism for that matter) even exists. Not to mention you will have an ethnic backlash from non-black taxpayers who feel personally that their money is going towards a demographic whose ancestors were enslaved and yet they (non-black taxpayers) will feel as if they're punished for a crime they didn't commit.

So therefore I ask myself sometimes " slavery aside, why is there more push back in recompense for African-Americans especially those who've suffered from reconstruction, Jim Crow, redlining, and civil rights which contributed to the economical gap?"

I don't doubt you. I do not doubt that there are those in the shadows pulling the puppet strings who are the 1%. But let me ask you though, what ethnicity are those pulling those strings? Thinking about this a quote by LBJ comes to my mind:

“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”

I agree. However there is still the question of complicity despite those who do not share the racist mentality. That itself is just as dangerous as the racist mind. the recent protests have given me hope for the future in that there are multi-ethnic people champion the cause of a minority group. To see LGBTQA+ community come out in solidarity with BLM, to see whites, Asians, Muslims, Jews, Christians, nurses, doctors, professionals, and even policemen and women themselves come out in solidarity gives me hope.

Belief systems are what must die my friend. — creativesoul

I agree, however the beliefs are attached to the person and unfortunately generational beliefs do not change easily. As a black man myself, despite my ideals of egalitarianism I am left with the memories of my mother, father, and grand-parents of their struggle and the affect of their wariness implanted on my soul. Because of that, I'm left with the reality that I may indirectly implant the wariness of "non-persons of color" upon my potential children despite also implanting upon them the love for all humanity. with that said like I stated earlier I think my death would suffice in helping promote egalitarianism (at least hopefully) however good points.