...how pervasive a problem do you see this kind of thinking as being within the contemporary philosophical community as a whole , or the history of philosophy? — Joshs
Sounds dubious.Shouldn’t type while biking — Antony Nickles
For the only way in which one can test whether a series of perceptions is veridical, in this sense, is to see whether it is substantiated by further sense-experiences , so that once again the ascription of “ reality ” depends upon the predictive value of the sense-data on which the perceptions are based. So long as the general structure of my sense-data conforms to the expectations that I derive from the memory of my past experience, I remain convinced that I am not living in a dream , and the longer the series of successful predictions is extended, the smaller becomes the probability that I am mistaken — p.274
The most that we can do is to elaborate a technique for predicting the course of our sensory experience, and to adhere to it so long as it is found to be reliable. And this is all that is essentially involved in our belief in the reality of the physical world. — Ayer, P.274
1. Language is for expressing, describing and communicating thoughts and the contents of perception.
2. Language never have access to the world direct. (sic)
3. Language is the last activity in the chain of the mental events i.e. you perceive, think, then speak in that order, never the other way around. — Corvus
Yep.So it's not just the words. — frank
You can't cut down a tree, or influence it in any way, with words. — Janus
Speech ActsI still think words are not actions — Corvus
No. I think most folk here understand Austin. You are an exception.For some reason you seem to think, no one can understand Austin. — Corvus
Obviously. It probably has not been pointed out to you before that we do things with words. A Big Learning for you.I don't agree with you at all. — Corvus
"I promise to meet with you next Tuesday."
With that very utterance, the promise is made, and the obligation created. Uttering the sentence "I promise to meet with you next Tuesday" counts as placing myself under the obligation to meet with you next Tuesday.
Promises are an example of a type of performative utterance that makes something the case... Further examples would be:
A king in check with no legal move out of check counts as checkmate in a game of chess
A candidate who has the majority of votes in the Electoral college counts as the president-elect in US constitutional law.
That one ought keep one's promises is, on this account, not the result of some virtue on the part of the promiser, not an agreement between the promiser and the promisee, not something one is obliged to do because of the negative consequences that would ensue if folk broke their promises, not the result of convention or expectation, but simply what is done in uttering the word of a promise in suitable circumstances. — Banno
Words are actions. We do things by speaking and writing. Your view of language is far too passive.But you don't see the fact it was the action which changed the tree not your word. — Corvus
You spoke it to someone with a chainsaw, not to the tree. You still cannot distinguish words and actions. — Corvus
if you insist that your words do not connect to the world and that you cannot tell if you are awake or asleep and that the world ceases to exist when you sleep, then there is little common ground on which we might move forward. — Banno
:lol:There is no logical ground for me to believe the world exists during my sleep — Corvus
Yep.how would one know they are hacked when the point is for the hacker not to reveal they are hacking someone? — Antony Nickles
Nope. Worked for me, but like Antony I am using Safari.Can you re-assure me that nothing disastrous will happen if I follow the link anyway? — Ludwig V
:lol: Not in your world, perhaps.By the way, there is no connection between words and the world. — Corvus
:grin: As I said:The contents of your post doesn't seem to have any points against the fact that language is a tool to describe, express, criticise and diagnose the objects and world. — Corvus
I can only set the argument before you. If you can't see it, that's down to you.You'll be thinking "Yeah, but each of those is just more expressing and describing" — Banno
I believe Austin may be thinking that we know the concept of dreaming from 'one's own case'. — Richard B
The argument is not that I know dreams are unlike waking experiences, it's that we know. If he were basing this on his own case, wouldn't that be "..it is just because I know that dreams are throughout unlike waking experiences that I can safely use ordinary expressions in the narration of them".And we might add here that descriptions of dreams, for example, plainly can't be taken to have exactly the same force and implications as the same words would have, if used in the description of ordinary waking experiences. In fact, it is just because we all know that dreams are throughout unlike waking experiences that we can safely use ordinary expressions in the narration of them; the peculiarity of the dream- context is sufficiently well known for nobody to be mis- led by the fact that we speak in ordinary terms. — p.42, my emphasis
Yeah, there's a need to go back to the text.We're getting off the rails. — Antony Nickles
Showing that Ayer's metaphysics is misconceived is itself a deeply metaphysical activity. — Banno
His first reaction might have been to point out that this is some of what language can do, but certainly not all. In How to do things with words he goes into this in more detail, but as points out we also command, question, doubt, and so on. With these words, we don't just percieve the world, we change it.1. Language is for expressing, describing and communicating thoughts and the contents of perception. — Corvus
But how do you help with this, where the whole picture and every word in it is either confused or wrong. — Antony Nickles
No reason to get excited
The thief, he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But, uh, but you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us stop talkin' falsely now
The hour's getting late, hey
There's an overtone in the very terms "aphantasia" and "hyperphantasia" that I think is very dangerous. They are not necessarily pathologies — Ludwig V
For me the key here was Davidson's A nice derangement of epitaphs. Any account can be actively undermined and falsified by another account. Also, formally, an account can be consistent, but only if it is incomplete; or it can be complete, but only if it is inconsistent. Perhaps this is why "not everything is certain, but equally not everything is uncertain".The theoretical uses of language are not the core... — Ludwig V
Yeah, it's attracted some fine, intelligent comment, and gone in a few unexpected directions. Most pleasing.I've very much appreciated the discussion. — wonderer1
