:up:The belief in objects having rudimentary consciousness goes back to animism. — Jack Cummins
Perhaps, as "Schrödinger Cat" as well as e.g. Einstein, Popper, Hawking, Penrose, Deutsch et al suggest, "quantum physics" provides an extremely precise yet mathematically incomplete model of "reality" – how does quantum measurement happen? – that is (epistemically?) inconsistent with classical scale scientific realism (re: definite un/observables / locality). I suspect, 'absent solving 'the measurement problem', physicists like d’Espagnat make a metaphysical Mind-of-the-gaps faux pas.As d’Espagnat famouslyobserved[assumed], quantum physics suggests that “reality is not wholly real” in the classical sense presupposed by scientific realism. — Wayfarer
• Evidence of those "millions of individuals"?P1: Extensive Testimonial Database - Millions of individuals across documented medical settings report near-death experiences involving conscious awareness during verified clinical death (estimated 400-800 million cases globally, with over 4,000 detailed firsthand accounts in academic databases). — Sam26
• Lacking controlled experiments?P4: Objective Verification Protocol - A substantial subset of cases includes independently corroborated details ...
Nonsense ... (see both links below P1).P5: Optimal Testimonial Conditions - Reports satisfy established criteria for reliable testimony: immediate temporal proximity to events, firsthand rather than hearsay accounts, credible sources without apparent ulterior motives, and systematic documentation by medical professionals and researchers.
You're projecting again, Sam.@Philosophim Your critique of my work reflects a surprisingly limited and elitist perspective on philosophy, misrepresenting ... — Sam26
Hume? Keynes? Popper? ...the inductive argument. — Sam26
This is confusing. Maybe you mean 'philosophy speaks about the concept of world'?Philosophy deals not with an object, but with its concept. And since philosophy speaks about the world .. — Astorre
Like Spinoza, I "disregard" body-mind (i.e. matter-spirit) substance duality. Conatus is inherent in nature – this worldly – ontologically immanent (Deleuze).I am not sure that the idea of spirit can be disregarded completely in thinking about the idea of soul. — Jack Cummins
By geist, Hegel means 'cultural and social development, or process, of humanity's self-consciousness' (e.g. weltgeist ... volkgeist ... zeitgeist).Hegel saw spirit as being imminent in history and in his understanding of 'mind'.
:up: :up:Returning to the ideas of Heidegger, Husserl, Merleau-Ponty, AI is deprived of temporality and finitude, it is deprived of living experience. Today it is a complex algorithmic calculator. — Astorre
:fire:the nonsensical idea of a theory of everything, which is the idea that the universe is infinitely compressible into finite syntax — sime
Thanks for this. :up:Vincent J. Carchidi, “Rescuing Mind from the Machines”(link)
This essay, published in Philosophy Now ... — Wayfarer
:up: :up:Life is one of the most complex and concentrated existences the universe contains. It is a set of chemical reactions that does not merely burn out, but seeks to renew itself for as long as possible. And as such we, life, make the world into something so much more existent than it would be had we all remained inert carbon. — Philosophim
Only some statements "can be justified" (e.g. by how things happen to be) and not facts such as "suffering". As Epicurus points out: one's actions (i.e habits) can either increase or decrease (or both) one's own suffering and/or suffering of others. "The meaning of life"– its value or "justification" (if there is such a thing) – as Nietzsche says, belongs to the world, or nature as a whole, and not to any one of us who suffers. We are beings-in-question (from suffering), so how each being answers individually and communally (for suffering) is what matters first and foremost; thus, courage (contra hope (or despair)) is the 'foundation' of all other virtues (i.e. habits which decrease suffering). Amor fati. :death: :flower:How can life be justified in spite of all the suffering it entails? — kirillov
:sweat: i.e. WOO-of-the-gaps (from ... appeal to ignorance)"Entropy" and "Enformy" are scientific/technical terms that are equivalent to the religious/moralistic terms "Evil" and "Good" [WOO]. So, while those forces are completely natural, the ultimate source of the power behind them may be supernatural [WOO], in the sense that the First Cause logically existed before the Big Bang. — Gnomon
:100:It is a mistake of category to believe that 'mental' is divorced from physical reality. — Philosophim
If so, then it is not an "objective (mind-independent) process"; otherwise, "thrown into question" is only subjective (i.e. a mere interpretation). Scientific realism (à la Deutsch)** – contra "shut up and calculate" instrumentalism / positivism – makes more sense (and is more parsimonious) to me.Perhaps - but, ironically, the whole question of the mind-independence of the fundamental aspects of nature has been thrown into question by this objective process. — Wayfarer
:up: :up:Our emotional state is usually in reference to what our expectations are. So, if you want to have the maximally positive emotional state, it is rational to lower your expectations to the minimum. I think a lot of misery in life comes from having high expectations which are not met. — Brendan Golledge
:smirk:Wokism is just a collection of leftist overreactions and eccentricities. That's the actual punchline. — ssu
:up: :up:When you hamstring God by saying, "well, it might be metaphysically impossible for God to do that", you're making God sound very impotent. I get why Christians like Leibniz do that, but it's a very weak ad hoc move. Prima facie, this is obviously not the best of all possible worlds. — RogueAI
Not really. I think "religions disagree" because they seek answers which rationalize or are permissible in accordance with prior conclusions (dogmas). To the degree different religions share prior conclusions, it seems their questions tend to converge on similar (or equivalent) "truths", and vice versa.In short, religions disagree about what happens when I die, how to be saved, etc. Religions have had thousands of years to find the truth and have failed.
— Art48
I hope that helps. — Art48
Your 'theory of jurisprudence', Bob, has nothing to do with the Christian metaphysics (magic) of "blood sacrifice" used vicariously to forgive ancestral "sin" – bronze Age sanguinary nonsense (re: e.g. "John 3:16" ... "1 Corinthians 15: 3, 4, 14, 17" ... The Nicene Creed). :mask:You can't pardon the person that victimized you and be just: that would be mercy at the expense of justice — Bob Ross
Presumably there is a theology thatexplains[EXCUSES] all this...
— Banno
Theology canexplain[EXCUSE] anything... — Tom Storm
Theology is not philosophy.
Theology starts with a conclusion, and seeks to explain how it fits in with how things are. It seeks to make a given doctrine consistent.
Philosophy starts with how things are and looks for a consistent explanation.
Theology can't say "That's inconsistent", and so eventually has to rely instead on mystery. — Banno
:100:Each biblical reference here supports the methodological point that theology presupposes its conclusion. — Banno
This "idea" is just a myth ... since, after all, it doesn't make any sense to say an 'Absolute, Eternal Creator' can "sacrifice" (i.e. suffer a permanent loss of) anything.... the idea of God's sacrifice. — Bob Ross
:up: :up:[W]hat is at stake is not rational.
It's why the replies from believers consist mostly of repeating doctrine rather than responding to the inconsistency. [ ... ] When face[d] with the profound, inexpressible, existential mystery, the rational response is I don't know.
But silence is difficult. — Banno
:pray: :smirk: Amen – sixteen centuries of canonical nonsense.The Catholic Church [Christian myth à la St. Paul, St. Augustine] teaches that God Almighty came down from heaven to save us... from His own wrath... by allowing Himself to be tortured to death. And apparently this strategy worked in spite of the fact that he didn't actually die (people saw him walking around three days later), and most people didn't get saved. — frank
I was talking about legitimate debt. Are you suggesting thatthe idea ofsin is illegitimate? — Bob Ross
It's a "debt" so great that God could not forgive it without "human sacrifice"? :roll:Imagine that you knew someone [mortals] was in debt toyou[God] so much money that they [mortals] never could pay it back. — Bob Ross
A "God" whose "love" is so shallow that it's easily "offended" and requires mortals to "repent" ... Mortals are set up only to "Fall", we're "created" sick and yet "commanded" to be well (C. Hitchens); IMHO, this "divine" extortion-"Plan" is not all-benevolent and therefore not worthy of worship (re: faith).According to Christianity, when you sin you offend God and you cannot repay that sin; so God, out of love, offered Himself to repay that debt so that you can repent.
:up:↪Bob Ross
The act of torturing yourself or others is evil[or stupid]. — MoK
And yet, no doubt, this "being challenged by science" is an objective process. :zip:[ ... ] Meaning that the stark object-subject divide that characterised modern thought is now being challenged by science itself. — Wayfarer
Greek atomists proposed this "idea" a couple of millennia ago.The idea that the universe is purposeless is a modern invention, arising in the early modern period ... — Wayfarer
:chin: So what was Platonism (re: the forms, universals) if not a "great abstraction"? or Pythagoreanism?That is briefly described in the OP under the heading of ‘The Great Abstraction’ — which is preciselywhat it was.
:up:we don't know anything transcendent, and this is so by mere definition. — Janus
:fire:If life has a meaning beyond mere survival it consists in the volition to thrive [ ... ] If there is a good we all strive for it is potence. Potence is naturally desirable (considered good) and impotence is naturally undesirable (considered bad). — Janus
... like e.g. disembodied mind.The idea of a transcendent meaning is incoherent ...
:100:All meaning is immanent and relative to life as lived.
Of course not, there aren't any compelling reasons (other than wishful thinking / childish habit) to do so.Did you ever try to accept it without understanding it? — frank
My high school Jesuit teachers had advised me to pray for the Grace to accept (without comprehending) the sacred Mysteries. Well, I couldn't lobotomize myself and thereby permanently gave up God – the zombie rabbi on a stick – "for Lent" (i.e. eliminated supernaturalia from my ontology aka "magical thinking") forty-five years ago.How does a person who hasn't had a lobotomy make sense of this? — frank
Outbreed and out-vote them.What about dumb adults, or sheeple? — Punshhh
So true. :smirk:We all know we are all stupid, and stupider still when younger. Why fan the flames of political ignorance? — I like sushi
Specify which "advice" you're referring to – on the whole I think Jesus' teachings were not very coherent and always morally right. Also, imo, many peoples in many places before were "living a better life" than Jesus' contemporaries (e.g. hunter gatherers ... Daoists, Confucians, Epicureans, Kynics, Stoics, etc).For example, imagine if everyone had followed the advice of Jesus two thousand years ago and continued to for generations. We would presumably be living a better life by now. — Punshhh
So by "non-physical" you mean abstract (i.e. non-causal, time-less & space-less)? For instance, walking is what legs do & digesting is what intestines do, ergo walking & digesting are merely abstract?! :eyes:The "distinction" is between the physical Brain and its meta-physical function: Minding is what a Brain does. When I refer to Mind as "Meta-Physical" --- note the hyphen --- I'm using the term in itsliteralsense of non-physical. — Gnomon
A typical cognitive confusion aka "transcendental illusion" – edify yourself, Gnomon, by at least reading Kant's Critique of Pure Reason ...[T]he term "metaphysical" is often construed as religious or mystical or unscientific woo-woo. The study of Meta-physics is indeed un-scientific, in that the Philosophical exploration goes beyond the empirical limits of physical Science.
How do you – can we – know this is the case?... consciousness. It is present, in all things. — Patterner
Thanks for this link.Here's a link to a famous paper on emergence "More is less" by P.W. Anderson. — T Clark
The biologist-philosopher's statement is neither "positivist" (i.e. only fact / observation-statements are meaningful) nor "dogma" (i.e. not defeasible or fallibilistic) but aptly describes the practices-efficacies of (a-telic) modern physical sciences in contrast to pre-modern 'idealist' metaphysics (e.g. Plato-Aristotle, neoplatonists, fideists, scholastics). The latter attempts to fill the current / persistent gaps in the former with mechanism-free – mysterious – woo :sparkle: which is an appeal to ignorance rather than lucid acknowledgements that "we don't know yet". I've no doubt Pigliucci, as well as most philosophically sophisticated modern scientists, would agree that the physical sciences are applied metaphysics which actually work (i.e. reliably generate good explanations for physical phenomena and processes).First of all, the scientific worldview holds that physical processes alone, operating through natural selection and other mechanisms, are sufficient to explain the emergence of all phenomena including consciousness and reason, without requiring any overarching purpose. Of course both Nagel and Goff object to this, but the reality is that the scientific worldview has been incredibly successful in practice, while the sort of metaphysics these authors keep pushing has done absolutely nothing to advance our understanding of the world and represents, in fact, a sliding back to the Middle Ages, if not earlier.
Second, and this is an elaboration of the point I have just made, teleological explanations simply fail to provide concrete mechanisms for how cosmic purpose would actually operate in physical reality. There is truly nothing there to be seen.
— Massimo Pigliucci
So he articulates exactly the kind of positivist dogma that I have in my sights. — Wayfarer
:up: :up:A relativist doesn’t have to deny that moral language is of use in our world: they just deny that it reflects some absolute, God’s-eye-view or Platonic realm of moral truth. — Tom Storm
