• Strong Natural Theism: An Alternative to Mainstream Religion
    Of course, this may not be at all relevant to the God 'of the pews', but this is a philosophical discussion.Wayfarer
    In other words, "the God of the pews" doesn't hold up under logical or metaphysical scrutiny and therefore is ontologically eliminable; the speculative or supernatural fiat of 'classical theism' is an unparsimonious, ad hoc X-of-the-gaps, apologia – rationalized superstition (à la Spinoza et al).
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    That is because if one doesn't continue in any form what is the significance of God in relation to one's own personal identity.Jack Cummins
    According to Epicurus, while death is final, "the gods or God" represent moral ideals to aspire to and live by (re: aponia, ataraxia ... "bliss").
  • Consciousness and events
    :up:

    :up: :up:

    You [@Wayfarer] interpret that as Feynman saying that engineering is like casting magic spells?wonderer1
    :smirk:
  • Consciousness and events
    :100:

    Suppose each thing is always a 'superposition of possibilities' but that measuring a thing tracks, or records, only one possibility at a time when the measurement apparatus – also a thing – is classical (i.e. local, decoherent). :chin:
  • Strong Natural Theism: An Alternative to Mainstream Religion
    In short, where theistic personalism projects human categories “upwards” into God, classical theism emphasizes God’s radical transcendence as the living source of all being, without collapsing Him into either a cosmic individual or a faceless principle.Wayfarer
    Afaik, the vast majority of religious believers are not "classical" theists in practice and instead worship a personal God (or gods). As Pascal says
    God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God
    of Jacob, not of the philosophers and scholars

    ... which makes Him vulnerable to anthropomorphic misunderstanding ...
    Read the most ancient religious scriptures; they all refer to God as "Him".

    ... and to the criticisms of modern atheism.
    Pre-modern atheism was also well represented by e.g. the Cārvāka & Ājīvika schools of Hinduism, Confucianism, classical atomism (e.g. "The Epicurean Paradox"), Sextus Empiricus, etc ...
    The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts: those with brains, but no religion, and those with religion, but no brains. — al-Ma'arri, 10-11th CE
    :smirk:
  • Strong Natural Theism: An Alternative to Mainstream Religion
    How is the idea of a non-personal deity consistent with the historical use of the term God?Bob Ross
    It's consistent with historical usages of Hindus (e.g. Vedanta), philosophers (e.g. the absolute, the infinite), Scholastics & Thomists (e.g. necessary being), JCI 'mystics' (e.g. ground of being), ... deists.

    Doesn't it seem to radically redefine what one means by God to refer to a being that is not a person?
    Spinoza does not conceive of God as "a person" (just as those mentioned above don't either).

    What kind of definition is Spinoza using (to decipher if his Substance is meaningfully identifiable as God or a god)?
    Spinoza uses "God" as the folk name/title for Nature (i.e. natura naturans), what human beings have always called reality (i.e. substance), or the fundamental power that causes all things to exist.

    Again, for Spinoza's "definition of God" ...
    Read his Ethics - Part 1 "Of God" pp. 1-31 (iirc)180 Proof
  • Why not AI?
    :up: Yes, AI/LLMs do not have concrete, phenomenal bodies in the world, ergo no 'common sense'.
  • What is right and what is wrong and how do we know?
    Is there any way to know for sure what is right and what is wrong?Truth Seeker
    Yes (see below).

    Different countries have different laws.
    Legality (institutional) =/= morality (interpersonal).

    Why isn't veganism legally mandatory in all countries?Truth Seeker
    Probably for the same reason carnivorism isn't "legal mandatory in all countries".

    :up: :up:

    [T]he one thing we can consider is that existence vs non-existence is good.Philosophim
    Well I agree, more or less, with Thomas Ligotti (Cioran, Buddha et al): "nonexistence never hurt anyone and existence hurts everyone."

    How can you know whether morality is objective or subjective?Truth Seeker
    Consider this post from a thread An inquiry into moral facts (2021) ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/540198

    and further elaboration (2023) ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/857773
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    Of course, I know that I am so influenced by Jung, as you are with Spinoza. I wonder how can the Jungian worldview can be compared and contrasted with that of Spinoza?Jack Cummins
    I just came across this video ("synchronicity?")

    (27½ mins)
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    The reason why one might be open to the possibility of a ‘life beyond’, or not, or why one might think it ridiculous, is the philosophical question at issue.Wayfarer
    I think probabilities (epistemic), not just "possibilities" (speculative), are existential modalities which matter more for flourishing.
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    Bohm's ideas on the idea of the implicate and explicate order.Jack Cummins
    David Bohm's conjecture is, I think, much closer to Spinoza's 'substance & modes' than to Plato's 'forms & appearances' because "the explicate order" (à la natura naturata (e.g. waves)) is immanent to – does not transcend – "the implicate order" (à la natura naturans (e.g. ocean)) as the forms do transcend appearances ("Plato's Cave").

    What about this post, Jack ...

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/1009977
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    I go towards the position of non-dualism.

    I am a mystic in the Platonic sense.
    Jack Cummins
    Square this circle for me – "non-dualism" + "the Platonic sense".
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    But, the question of source does seem important ...Jack Cummins
    Again, I say: Explain why "nature" requires a "source" (that is, why isn't the "source" itself also "nature"?)

    ... and is connected to the issue of how did something come from nothing?
    Why assume "something" is not uncaused? not infinte? not eternal?

    Besides, 99.9% of every "something" consists of empty space – "nothing" – so they are complementary, coexisting, physical states (like e.g. atomism's 'atoms & void' or daoism's 'yin & yang'). Iirc, both Aristotle¹ and Spinoza posit that 'the universe is eternal'.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity_of_the_world#Aristotle [1]

    And don't forget: 'why there is something and not just nothing' is because nothing causes or prevents something from Coming to be And Continuing to be And Ceasing to be. :smirk:

    F[eu]rerbach's 'projections' raise the question as to whether God created man in his own image or vice versa.
     
    No, he answers "the question": man creates god.²

    https://philosophynow.org/issues/85/Feuerbach_Love_and_Atheism [2]
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    ... whether there is a 'higher power' or not, which may come down to whether spirit or 'the supernatural' exist in any meaningful way. Or, are they mere projections of the human imagination?Jack Cummins
    I agree with Feuerbach: projections.

    I am inclined to think that there is a transcendent realm.
    More plausibly than not, a "transcendent realm" is an example of a "mere projection". :sparkle:

    There is nature but does anything exist beyond this, as [the] source.
    If "nature" has an edge, or limit, then "beyond" makes sense. Afaik, "nature" does not have an edge, or limit (i.e. is finite yet unbounded), therefore, imo, your question, Jack, doesn't make sense. Explain why "nature" requires a "source" (that is, why isn't the "source" itself also "nature"?)

    ... 'quantum reality'.
    How is that different from reality? "Quantum reality" seems to me another woo-woo phrase that doesn't make sense.
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    If I can see [experience] it, it's physical.Hanover
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    ... cultures the world over have reported [FLAT Earth] experiences, along with narratives of other planes of existence, re-birth (and there is substantial corroborated evidence of children with past-life recall) and so on. Might it be that the [ROUND Earth] worldview is deficient in some respect.Wayfarer
    :meh:

    (argumentum ad populum)
  • Philosophy in everyday life
    Yes, all the [emo] kids of my era were cheerfully fixated with deconstruction in the 1980’s. I never had the temperament to make it through the texts. They were so turgid and took time from women and booze.Tom Storm
    :cool: :up:
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    I have to say that NDEs are a serious anomaly in physicalismMoK
    :confused:
    According to its believers, experience is something extra to physicalism ...MoK
    :monkey:
    My point here is that if we take the mind/body interaction problem seriously, we don't just shrug our shoulders and claim that ghosts exist as a seperate substance in a mysterious way, but we say instead that ghosts must be physical as well. Once you start observing and measuring, you're a physicist, and you need to categorize your discoveries scientifically. That is, it is impossible to physically prove the non-physical.Hanover
    :100:

    @Sam26

    You're trying to make an apple pie with strawberries.

    @Hanover gamely pointed out that people can't see without using their eyes, and all of the reports you rely on are of people seeing without their eyes and hearing without their ears.
    Srap Tasmaner
    :100:
  • The Concept of 'God': What Does it Mean and, Does it Matter?
    When I spoke of shallow atheism, I was referring to scientism and materialistic determinism.Jack Cummins
    These conceptions are independent; neither are necessary properties of or entailed by atheism. To my mind "shallow atheism" denotes a lack of belief in some gods but not others (i.e. all gods).
  • Strong Natural Theism: An Alternative to Mainstream Religion
    So Spinoza is an atheist IMHO: I remember now.Bob Ross
    Novalis' "god-intoxicated man" is an acosmist (as I've pointed out ), not "an atheist".
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    @Sam26

    That there are volumes and volumes of evidence amounts to nothing if that evidence isn't subjected to meaningful scrutiny.Hanover
    :100:
  • Philosophy in everyday life
    First [and last] comes daily life, then comes philosophy.T Clark
    :fire:
  • Wisdom: Cultivation, Context, and Challenges
    Knowledge is stuff you know and wisdom is understanding how and when to apply such knowledge.I like sushi
    ... as well as, maybe especially, how not to and when not to apply what one (thinks one) knows.
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    My arguments are is that naturalism is very successful at explaining. The supernatural is not successful.Apustimelogist
    :up: :up:

    You [@Sam26] are making a scientific claim about the way the universe is. Just as physics and biology require replicable experiments to show that their theories are empirically adequate, you need to do the same to show there is no possibility that scientific theories can account for the same phenomena.Apustimelogist
    :100:

    If you [@Sam26] do not have a strong basis to do so, people are justified in not believing you given a confidence in naturalism.
    :up:

    :up: :up:
  • Philosophy in everyday life
    ... a simple person, with ordinary views, with simple desires and good intentions. Perhaps philosophy teaches us this?Astorre
    Yes – e.g. Epicurus and/or Spinoza.
  • Wisdom: Cultivation, Context, and Challenges
    Personally, I wouldn’t say I am wise, but I do have experience and competence in some areas. Do I actively cultivate wisdom? I rarely think about it.Tom Storm
    My two bits from a 2021 thread ...
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/548880

    :roll:

    :up: :up:
  • Philosophy in everyday life
    How do you personally resolve ethical contradictions that arise in your everyday life?Astorre
    "Ethical contradictions" have yet to "arise" in (my) everyday life. However, when faced with a dilemma / tradeoff, I try to discern (mostly by habit) the lesser harmful alternative and choose that one.

    Does your knowledge of philosophy help you deal with life's difficulties, losses, or existential anxiety?
    No.
    How do you find a balance between your philosophical mindset and the superficiality you encounter in others?
    I try to regard them as persons – Others in Levinas' sense (or I-You's as per Buber) aka "ends-in-themselves" / "fellow sufferers" – before I judge that they are "superficial" (or anything else).

    Does philosophical thinking change your approach to relationships, friendships, and love? If so, how?
    Only in so far as it makes my "approach" more reflective and much less instrumental.
  • Wisdom: Cultivation, Context, and Challenges
    Can an uneducated person be wise?
    — Tom Storm
    No.
    — L'éléphant

    That’s ridiculous. I think it shows, perhaps, a lack of wisdom.
    T Clark
    :up: :up:
  • Why not AI?
    Jefferson held that universal education ...Athena
    except for slaves, indentureds, girls and women ...
    ... is the most effective means of preserving democracy and good government.
    However, it's not a sufficient condition for robust liberty.

    .
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    :ok: In other words, like @Sam, you don't know.
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    How do you/we know NDE-subjects "experience" anything while there is zero brain activity?

    Btw, "materialism" is not a theoretical explanation but an ontological speculation and/or a methodological paradigm – it is not disproven by yet unexplained "anomalies", only replaced by a less dubious, or problematic, alternative (e.g. physicalism, naturalism, etc).

    [A] flat EEG reading isn't a sufficient measurement for defining brain death.sime
    :100:
  • Why not AI?
    ... It just gets tiresome. Everything is amazing. Let's leave it at that.Outlander
    :smirk:

    All we can do is be[come?] the change we want to see.Baden
    :up:

    I'd rather lose on argument than bluff my way through one. That's the beginning of outsourcing your personality.
    I.e. dogmatism (or superstition).

    The end is human jello permanently plugged into AI-Tik Tok, gurgling its way happily to death.
    :clap: :lol: Welcome to the Matrix!

    ... liberal education ...Athena
    Funny thing about "liberal education" is those few with the most of it have always, in theory and practice, substantially denied it to the many who need it to help liberate themselves. Modern history shows that "liberal education" (as e.g. Jefferson / Paine / Marx suggest) is only a necessary, but not a sufficient, condition for liberty of the many.
  • What is a system?
    Systems are coherencies of (self-recreating in the case of autopoietic systems) differences between themselves and an environment.Baden
    :up: Works for me.
  • Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body
    ... if NDEs are veridical, then the standard mind–brain equivalence is challenged - along with the assumption that humans are wholly or simply physical ... the metaphysical implications can’t simply be wished away.Wayfarer
    :roll: Yeah, and if "reincarnations", "alien abductions" or "astral projections" are veridical, then ... :sparkle:

    Addendum to
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/1008184