That made me laugh because Punshhh knows bugger all about my background.

God almighty, you really don't get it. I said mass immigration puts downward pressure on wages...that is an obvious fact. You then point out that wages have only dropped slightly and may level out over time... completely missing the fact that wages would have probably grown. You ask an average taxi driver how good mass immigration has been for his career.

You have to be very careful with statistics and who is behind their interpretation when they are broadcast by biased media outlets.

Two basic economic facts for you...

1) An over abundance of labour creates downward pressure on wages. There is no logical dispute on this.

2) A rapid increase in population density, without pre-planning (ie, our situation) , increases demand on services, thus increasing costs. There is no logical argument against this fact.

Now you can link to some organisation's interpretation of the statistics but those two points I have made clear for you are obvious facts.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281322/population-density-in-the-united-kingdom-uk-by-country/

Here you can see the difference between population density of England as opposed to the UK. SE England has a higher density than England as a whole....it's the part of the country that most EU immigrants have come to.

I didn't say it was going to happen , I asked whether you'd be alright about it.

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=mo4pjipima872_&met_y=population&idim=country:nl:be:se&hl=en&dl=en

Just out of interest...the population of the Netherlands was 11 million in 1960, it's over 17 million now...would you be happy for it to be 30 million in 20 years time? Is population density of no importance to you?

Unlike you I didn't claim to speak for the whole Dutch population...but a assume you agree that not all dutch people are happy with the EU and open borders (which in itself turned out to be a lie...the borders are not open now are they).

You have a lot of faith in politicians mate...luckily most Brits are very sceptical about them. Only those of the liberal left persuasion want more of them , another unnecessary layer of politics...they really can't get enough of them.

That's a seriously deluded view...the British public have become far more conservative in their politics...look at the lead the Tories have established in the latest polls...Conservatives are on over 50% . People have seen through the social democratic (slow imposition of marxism ) model pushed by the liberal left...open borders, divisive identity politics and the climate catastrophe that can only be remedied with socialism lie. It's a busted flush, the game is up, the western world has started to recognise the damage caused by the internationalism (aka globalism ) of the liberal left.

The EU epitomises everything wrong with the liberal left (social democracy) model...that's why the EU will disintegrate unless it becomes what it said it was originally, a club of independent trading nations.

Lol, sorry I didn't realise you spoke for the whole Dutch population!

If you leftists think rapid population growth is good for the UK, why not the world ?

It would be insane to assert that rapidly increasing the population with low skilled workers from different cultures has no effect on wages ,costs and social unity...it is just a fact that increasing supply of labour lowers wages and increasing population density beyond the point where a country can feed itself has costs...including increased costs of housing and travel. Sometimes those costs are indirect so wont show on wages...eg, increase in taxes for roads, schools, hospital etc.

Misleading...population density in England is far higher than the UK, population density in se England far higher still. Also Netherlands has its issues with population growth too.

So you are saying there are no costs to increasing population density? Bear in mind that England is already one of the most crowded parts of Europe...4 times the population density of Germany or France (from what I recall).

But they are a bunch of cunts...also a tiny over represented part of the population causing most of the problems...so we can be divisive with them.

I treat this like twitter not a treatise. I've got a life, I can't spend hours formulating an argument on here.

Another quick point...the liberal left hates Johnson, he's virtually Hitler to them but it is because he is popular and much of the population despises the "leaders" of the liberal left...Clegg, Cameron, Blair , Brown , Corbyn...what a bunch of cunts.

What you are not taking into account (even assuming those numbers you quoted are correct) is that massively increasing the population pumps the housing market (both buying and rental) increasing costs, increases population density, thus roads become congested and taxes rise to compensate, schooling and health care costs increase etc. The amount of money that someone earns is not the measure of whether they are better off...it is how things combine together in a rapidly increasing population density situation.

The EU can not be reformed because it is not democratic.

The idea that pumping the economy with millions of low skilled workers is good for the economy is a joke...the economy grows as the population grows ...woopy fucking doo. The middleclass loves to suppress working class wages and travel more in Europe, we all know that...did you know there are now more servants in the UK than during Victorian times, the middleclass social justice warriors love that too.

You accuse me of spreading myths then don't bother pointing out my "myths" with evidence to back your arguments...because you know that what I have said is factual.

Then you accuse me of pointing the finger at the liberal left when the liberal left do nothing but point and accuse of racism, sexism, homophobia, transism, Islamophobia etc , etc , etc .The liberal left has abandoned the working class for new , woke, identitarian politics and wonders why it is dying as a political force. We should also remember that some real leftists were very much anti-EU , being anti-EU does not imply being right-wing.

I'll say again, it is the political liberal left that has caused division and hate in our society. It comes from an arrogance born of middle class (spoiled) upbringing combined with liberal, identity obsessed university education. The funny thing is that these types really believe they have a higher intellect because of their "education"...but I'll let you into a secret...most people that struggle through life are often a lot more savvy in their views than the effete middleclass sprogs of over-paid middle level public sector "workers".

The world is more and more about trade so it only stands to reason that boycotts (on an individual or national level) have an ever greater potential for impact. The Chinese have used slave labour , environmental destruction and dumping cheap goods in a form of economic warfare.

The liberal left never say or act against China. You can argue that the right has empowered China too, but it is also the right that is now talking about action ...the left is silent, which is strange given how vocal they are about all the problems they accuse the West of...

One of the big giveaways of the eu is that it's predominately middle class people that want it...

Empire building is always a bad idea if the people never voted for it. In that the EU is very close to the old soviet empire...just a softer form of it but still bad.

The real toxicity in UK politics is the divisive identity politics of the liberal left, the non-stop shit stirring.

Punshhh and fdrake display a complete misconception of what motivated many people to decide that leaving the political institution was a good idea. They just regurgitate the same old racism crap...I'll give you a list that motivated me and probably many others...

1) Freedom of movement led to the mass importation of labour, predominately low skilled cheap labour which obviously puts downward pressure on wages and increased pressure on services (schooling ,housing, cultural differences etc etc). The numbers coming in were huge, far bigger than Tony Blair said. Middle class people quite liked it, their cleaners, plumbers, drivers and builders were cheaper.

2) The EU is very obviously corrupt, they haven't had their books signed off for years. As I have said , they pay each other very well too...lovely big fat expense accounts. Brexit MP's that were elected to go out there were amazed by the extravagant lifestyle.

3) The commissars are not elected by the people but they decide what the EU politicians get to vote on...does that sound like democracy to you ?

4) There was a very obvious lie (which we can see with the benefit of hindsight) told to the British people when we joined in '73 and had our first referendum in '75... we were told that this is just an economic club where as it's clearly empire building...they lied through their fucking teeth. Older people remember that.

5) Another concept that goes right over the head of middle class virtue signalling lefties is that your neighbour isn't necessarily your friend. The French sold weapon systems to the Argentines when we were at war with them in '82...can you imagine Canada selling weapons to Iraq during the gulf war? The Germans would be more than happy to take all our manufacturing capacity to their shores. Look how Italy was treated by the other member states during the height of this virus disaster in its time of dire need.

But look how poor N Korea is...their goods must not be as popular as you think. N Korea is kind of what China would become if we stopped buying their goods...full of bluster but totally impotent...sounds like a plan.

According to you 90% of people that work on building sites are lunatics...quite a sweeping statement. Normal , working class people measure life by more than materialist measures (unlike leftists who always seem obsessed with money) , they are more in tune with greater values...that's why working people tend to be more nationalist but also less willing to trust politicians (leftists love their politicians , the right not so much...unless they prove themselves) . Most working class people that voted Conservative didn't because they trusted them, they did it because they despise what the lib dems and Labour have become...parties absolutely willing to sell their nation, culture and society out. They might not express it like me , but trust me, they fucking hate these liberal, middle class ,know-nothings.

"Why don't the liberal left boycott goods manufactured by despotic regimes ? I've never once seen the left initiate such a boycott...apart from South Africa during apartheid . Why is China acceptable but the old South Africa not ?"

How does what I wrote in the OP correlate to what you wrote in your last post?

Marching is generally carried out by the left in order to virtue signal.

When I talk to people about what China has done , the evils it has carried out while the liberal left turns a blind eye, I try to convince them to boycott Chinese goods.

By the way, I'm not racist, I still enjoy a good Chinese take-away...I had one a couple of days ago to show my support to their community.:)

1) Freedom of movement involves the weakening of national borders (obviously), that is a direct "attack" on national independence so damn free movement. I don't mind a few checks next time I travel to Europe.

2) We lead Europe on human rights...now the EU rights are going too far, eg, giving the vote to prisoners.Only a moron could defend that.

3) The Paris agreement is a complete joke, none of its target will get reached...because China and India will carry on polluting.

4) We've had paid holidays in the UK for decades...nothing to do with EU membership.

5) Why should the working week be capped at 48 hours? That's only two days out of seven.

6) One tax we can avoid is paying those thousands of EU bureaucrats.

The EU is very obviously a gravy train...10,000 people earning more than the UK PM...that's acceptable to you is it? Do you think their "jobs" are as difficult and stressful as the UK's PM?

I like the fact that Cummings and the PM get under the skin of the liberal left, I like that Johnson looks serious about Brexit. I would prefer a real Tory like Mogg in charge though...Johnson is too liberal for my taste...eg, I don't like the way he has joined the leftists into turning the NHS into some kind of religion that can't be criticised, or when he was Mayor he wanted to grant an amnesty to illegal immigrants.

I like Cummings because I believe he is highly intelligent and could potentially really change things for the better...but we will see...this virus has altered much.

I only want a trade deal with the EU if it does not bind us into any of their regulations/rules/laws. I'd be more than happy going to wto trade...as we already do with the US, our biggest single trade partner.

I don't think the EU has achieved anything of real value for the people of Europe...but it has wasted vast sums . It has also usurped power from the more accountable national governments (often with their assistance)...the people never asked for any of this shit ...the British people were clearly lied to, we were told this was purely an economic club when it clearly not.

Corruption is writ large over the EU. It is a gravy train of totally unnecessary politicians and their legions of pen pushers. I gave one example ...over 10,000 of the bastards earn more than the UK Prime Minister...if that doesn't alert you to its corrupt nature then nothing will. The love of money and power corrupts and the EU has been amassing that by the shovel fulls...now , starting with the UK, things are changing.

I just talk to people , I'd say I'm fairly persuasive ...but it's up to them. People on the right don't generally go on marches , or hang about outside embassies...we've usually got a living to earn.

I don't think that the Conservative governments of the past decade have been right-wing at all...they are overwhelmingly social democrats...with a minority (like the ERG) being true Conservative.

Things have changed too because most working class people vote Conservative, the Labour party is now the bastion of middle class metropolitan types...who think they are really clever but fuck up everything they touch...probably because many of them were raised and live in privileged protected environments, safe spaces.

You've said it so much better than I could, cheers.

I've already said the government should put taxes on Chinese goods. I also think the UK government should ban Huawei from building our 5G network...but there is also a place for individual action. A lot of people in the UK are very angry at what the Chinese have done and a boycott movement could come into being.

Brexiteers probably get fed up listening to the condescending attitude of dickwads like O Brien...and the debate is already won, we have left.

People aren't as stupid as those on the liberal left think, just because most Brexiteers haven't been to Uni and learned the art of talking absolute bollox (I'm an exception lol:)) people like you shouldn't underestimate the will of most people to leave an organisation that is clearly utterly corrupt.

I have a theory that too many politicians becomes as bad as too few...especially when they become ever more separated from the electorate. The EU is a perfect example where commissars get to decide on what politicians can vote on. That's why the EU is generally at odds with the majority of EU citizens. The EU is also appallingly corrupt and expensive to run ...I believe there are at least 10,000 bureaucrats within the EU establishment that earn more than the British Prime minister.

I am not a rich person , I'm a roofer but I can choose not to buy Chinese goods. Your argument seems to imply that poor(er) people are unable to choose better options with regard to what they purchase...they will always buy the cheapest goods, but again that is false...most poorer people I know buy named brands ...would actually prefer debt to shoddy clothing. That is the atmosphere we have created through fashion, entertainment and media (liberal left bastions).

The liberal left are generally the spoiled middle classes, those that have most benefited from the status quo , those that are most likely to buy Apple products made by slave labour in factories run on coal fired electricity , spewing pollution into the neighbouring environment. But it's all ok provided the image is right, provided the right level of virtue signalling is put out.

China may possibly build an additional 500 coal fired power stations by 2030...2 a week. You seem not to understand the magnitude of the Chinese threat to the World's well being...both political and environmental. We're constantly bleated at by the liberal left media, politicians and bang-on liberal lefty ngo's and businesses that we must cut back on pollution and treat people with respect (unless they are conservatives lol)...but again the liberal left gives China a free pass. China spreads a dangerous virus around the world that kills thousands and could lead to a depression...but again the liberal left gives China a free pass and tries to blame Trump for it.

It almost seems as though the liberal left has sold out...it attacks Western governments but keeps quiet about the Chinese.In my opinion those that believe in western ideals needs to point out the appeasement of the liberal left, push them aside and take action against the CCP . That action involves trying to avoid purchasing Chinese products where possible and forcing them to pay for the damage they have done by placing taxes on their exports...it's not like they could retaliate, the trade imbalance is huge.

Anyone that takes notice of O Brien isn't to be taken seriously.