If I’ve given a definition of truth on this OP then I’d be happy to see it. — Brett

You did not give a definition of how your were using the word, that is exactly what I and others have said. Jeez, do not bother answering. :shade:

although it could be asked what kind of bodies do human beings have in heaven too? — Jack Cummins

Bodies are material, heaven not. They could not co-exist. Glad I am not going there.

Really? Someone on a philosophy forum needs a definition for atheist? — Brett

No, I think I corrected you on the incorrect definition you were using. What I meant was the definition of truth that you were using incorrectly, as others also pointed out.

And do try to put all of your answers in one post, you do not earn extra points for all of the unnecessary post. You just look childish trying to up the number of posts you have next to your name.

This is a dead end. — Xtrix

I agree. I am out of here too.

What? How could I replace something I never thought existed? — Brett

Which is what I have been saying, I never thought it existed either so there is nothing to replace.

Most atheist don't think gods exist either.

Which brings us to the end of another pointless non discussion on god.

And please learn to post properly before starting more threads, explain exactly what you are talking about and give the definitions and info needed for people to be able to reply properly.

If you read my posts you’d have seen that I neither believe or disbelieve. — Brett

So I'm talking to an agnostic here then?

What did you replace the truths about the existence of god with then?

Which is that God doesn’t exist. — Brett

Anything that is referred to as a god does not exist, I am not going to worry about which one.

Is that the sum total of what has replaced that original belief in God’s existence? — Brett

If there is no original belief in a god then nothing has to be replaced, not all atheist are converts to atheism.

What else do they think as a result of repudiating that belief? — Brett

They don't think anything because they have not repudiated anything. Have lost nothing means that nothing to replace.

So I’m talking to an atheist here? — Brett

Does it make any difference? From what I remember you asked us specifically for responses.

Which is part of my point. As an atheist you have no proof that God does not exist. So why do you believe that to be true? — Brett

After you tell me why you believe there is one. It should be easier for you to prove the existence of something existent that for me to prove the non-existence of something.



You might make more sense if you learn to read a whole post before responding to anything instead of doing it bit by bit. It is also bloody annoying having to read so many posts made in reply to one post of mine.

Okay. Let me be clearer. I was not referring to “truths” about God. I was referring to the idea that God exists exists for believers. — Brett

So the answer is yes, for them it is true that a god exists. But for me it is true that he doesn't. Go figure.

No!
Science is not a math, its a style of philosophy , a technique, a way of reasoning. — Trebor

:gasp: :chin: :roll:

Can we take this idea, run with it and reduce, in a manner of speaking, all science to geometry? — TheMadFool

Math is one of the ways used to express the working of science, I think that you are several hundred years late coming up with this.

Our need for gender identification is to define their role based on their physical abilities. — Rxspence

No, gender has been used to decide roles in societies, but not based on physical abilities but the needs of the society. Strong women would have been warriors and wimpy men would have maids if only the physical abilities had been taken into account.

Without physical advantages or restrictions we eliminate judgement, pain, pride, etc. — Rxspence

No, people are judged by many more things than their physical state. Pain and pride are things that cannot be eliminated because they serve a very important part of life.

It also makes it nearly impossible to explain what comes after the bright light. — Rxspence

I have no idea what you are referencing here.

[reply="Sir2u;481215"
I think that the idea being conveyed is that God is not limited to the restrictions of a physical body and its pleasures, but if (God exists at all), is way beyond our limitations of male and female, and bodies. — Jack Cummins

To reply to a post, just select the text to quote and click on the "quote" button.

If what you say is true then what would be the great thing about going to heaven?

It’s possible there’s something very wrong with my post. But as yet I can’t see it. — Brett

That is an understatement.

I don’t think that I’m referring to “truths” about God, whatever that means. I’m referring to the idea of believers that God exists, something that is true to them. — Brett

That is why I asked for more information about what you were actually talking about, because I don't know what you think.

Both atheists, those that do not believe a god exists, and theists, those that believe on does exist, have their opinion about it. They might consider it to be true but neither has any proof to back up their opinion. The main difference between atheists and theists is that there are so many "one true gods" that it is impossible for them to all be true whereas the atheists have only one true concept.

No, what it does not say is that a truth has to replace God. I do not say anything has to replace God. I ask what atheists replace the idea that God is the truth with. — Brett

If you read it very carefully asked what truths about god have to be replaced, not what should replace god.

Data? What is proper data? — Brett

Maybe some definitions would help. As Tim said, what exactly is a god. What is a truth as you use the word here.

That’s not what I said. Reread my first post. — Brett

OK, here it is.

For all those avowed atheists out there; if God and the beliefs in God’s existence and actions have no validity, no claim to truth, then what truth have you replaced them with? — Brett

I did read it again and it says just what I stated. The truths about god have to be replaced by something. The problem is you have not specified those truths yet either.

True, but it doesn’t make you an atheist. — Brett

It does if they do not believe in god, unless you have another use of the word that you have failed to tell us. Maybe you think it is conditional upon the rejection of god, but that is not what the word means.

This was in response to your post about how many people that are atheists never believed in God. If they were raised from being very young without any knowledge of God that would not make them atheists, it would just make them ignorant of the idea of God. — Brett

Atheist - Someone who does not believe in the existence of a god.
Theist - Someone who believes in the existence of a god.

If you have not been taught to believe in gods, it does not mean that you are ignorant of other people believing in their existence.
You can still know about the concept of gods even if you have not been trained to believe int hem.

But this discussion is getting boring without having the proper data necessary to continue. You said the the truths about god need to be replaced by something, so exactly which truths are you talking about? Maybe this will help to decide what could possibly replace them.

But we’re not talking about facts. — Brett

Yes you are.

For all those avowed atheists out there; if God and the beliefs in God’s existence and actions have no validity, no claim to truth, then what truth have you replaced them with? — Brett

Information that is valid, or truthful is called a fact.

Yes, for believers God is a fact. — Brett

So it is a belief. Not all beliefs are truth. A god, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Yeti, Atlantis, easy money are some of the many things people believe to be true. How many of them would you consider to be facts. Based on the proof available for each of them I would guess that they all have the same chance to be so.

I don’t know how they would have come to that conclusion. Would that belief be from birth? — Brett

There are people that are never given religious education, that would mean that they never had what you call truth. Belief in god is not something that comes at birth, it is drummed into the young as they grow up. So why would anyone need to come to a conclusion, you believe what you are taught to believe until something changes the way you think.

No, I mean truths.

If, however, “atheism” is defined in terms of theism and theism is the proposition that God exists and not the psychological condition of believing that there is a God, — Brett

So the preposition that god exists is true, not a belief. Does that mean that one should not believe the truth?

Then what is that? — Brett

Would that not be different for the individuals the stop believing.

But you have failed to take into account that many people that are atheists never believed in any god, would that mean that they never had any truths?

Over time more and more people have come to believe and insist that God does not exist. Some people have grown up with idea of God’s existence then repudiated, for whatever reasons, that possibility. — Brett

So you mean morals and beliefs, not truths.

It’s hardly likely, though maybe possible, for those people to then exist in a vacuum. So what instead have they filled that vacuum with? — Brett

If they have stopped believing then whatever convinced them that they were wrong would be filling the space.

For all those avowed atheists out there; if God and the beliefs in God’s existence and actions have no validity, no claim to truth, then what truth have you replaced them with? — Brett

Why would one have to replace anything?
Why would it be necessary to replace something that you never had?

perhaps heaven is the absence of sensory frustration. — Rxspence

Please explain this. I cannot see the connection between sensory capacity and gender specification.

Do you live in Afghanistan? — Hanover

Nope, Honduras.

My life dream is Winterbury Bed and Breakfast. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I had this idea a long time ago, to start a place for visitors to come and stay for a couple of days. There used to be a lot of young Americans and Europeans backpacking through here. But when the country hit the most dangerous place to visit list at #1 I gave up on the idea. Maybe things will change.

If no one talked on the other forum, what did you do there? :worry:

you

Night time dreams, I cannot remember them when I awake.

The I have a dream type, a world where people have figured out that if you don't bother other people they will not bother you.

We can make it all fit by a selfish abuse of language and anthropomorphism (in a selfish poetic coup d'état). — Nils Loc

How selfish of you to write this all by yourself. :up:

I had asserted that everything is selfish — TheMadFool

Selfishness being a state of mind, makes this statement nonsensical. Only things that have minds can be selfish. Most of the stones and buckets I have met are not in the least selfish, quite the opposite in fact.
I did not read the original post, and I am not inclined to go and do so. So could you give a little of the context in which you used "everything is selfish". What were you referring to?

Procreate and balls should not be used in the same thread, please take note for the future well being of the forums morality. :wink:

Suspiciously Russian sounding words... :chin: — The Opposite

Vaca, Spanish cow

Goytsz, BS

I'm not sure what you mean, but I was referring primarily to radio 4 and the World Service. — jamalrob

I don't get to hear radio 4 around here, not available. While the podcast are available, I can honestly say that I have no idea what most of them are about. The ones that are about news, things that are happening either locally in England or internationally, I would rather read about in the news pages where they have images or videos.
I have no idea who most of the famous guests that some of the podcasts have, probably because most of them are were not famous the last time I was in England.

For instance, early this year I read a book about time travelers and Boudica was mentioned. I have a bad habit of looking for information about the places and people that appear in the books I read. I even use Street View to look for the places sometimes. I looked for information about Boudica and found a BBC podcast about her. After listening to it I was a bit disappointed, entertained yes but not informed.

Think of it like talk radio. If you've ever enjoyed listening to that, then you'd enjoy podcasts. In fact, there are many BBC radio podcasts. — jamalrob

I used to love listening to the old BBC radio shows, but I am not really a fan of the talk just to talk style that is used so often today an the radio.

what are your interests? I tend to listen to podcasts based on my hobbies/interests e.g. this one: — The Opposite

Most of my interests do not have much that could be said in a podcast. Whilst I am a good audio learner I prefer visual aids as well. They would have to be videos, or at least contain images. I do a lot of handy work in my spare time. I have built several houses so I watch and read material about construction and related topics.

I also like to watch some of the TED talks and I have found good supply of lectures for free online, lots of which come with visual/written references.

I prefer audio books, at least I know that it is either 100% fiction/fantasy or a researched work. The few podcasts I have listened to were not very satisfying.

Is that really a question that you would like others to answer, or just you lazy, cheap, wanker personality spilling out? :lol:

I would guess you are in your early twenties, live in a reasonable size city, have a boring no future job or studying something with the same prospect and are addicted to the internet.

One of the best ways to spend your time would to do some reading, another might be to do some outdoor exercise. Having an interesting job is a great way to pass time.

Bad ways to spend time would be what you call good time, self pleasuring.

God is a He because he wears the pants in His household. Or, his wife "fell down a set of stairs" after her kids were born and this has been kept a secret. — Nils Loc

He/she/it could not have kids, that is why she/he/it had to send his cronies to screw up the life of a poor virgin.
They don't have stairs in heaven either, shit man how could they get any further up.

The kids still wonder, if God is like a man, why did he make women? Are they the less favored of the natural binary? — Nils Loc

I believe if god is male, then god must be gay and that the only way he could have kids was by being a sperm donor. That fits the story better than anything else I have heard.

is a formula not a fact if it is true? Is the truth not revealed by fact? — Benj96

I love my wife, that is a fact, but the truth depends upon the definition of love does it not.

As in, many people believe quicker is better, — Outlander

That may be true for a person that wants things, a lady of the night would certainly agree with you. But just ask the missus for her idea of the truth.

Facts are not always historical. That would mean that nothing in the present moment is a fact because it isn’t historical it’s present. — Benj96

The sun is shining would be a fact, if indeed it is shining at the present moment. Ask the weatherman if the sun will shine tomorrow. Of course it will he will answer, somewhere.

Facts are always historical, but not all of history is fact.

Please tell me one future fact.
Example: Trump will leave the White House sometime next year.
Is this the truth? Yes, because the public decided his sorry ass needed to be kicked out.
Is it a fact? Who knows. Maybe he will buy the bloody thing.

What is truth? — Benj96

Are you confusing truth with fact?

Prayer might help folks psychologically stabilize when they perceive to have very little control over their lives. — Nils Loc

Or allow them to blame everything that is wrong on the will of their god and ask for help to fix the problems they have caused. Lots of the people that have problems because of the storm here were told to evacuate with plenty of time to do so, no they prayed that someone else would be affected instead of them.

Just watched a mini doc about kids growing up in the gang ridden districts of Honduras. Faith makes more sense to me in such situations because the most people can do is hope for good outcomes in the face of senseless violence and poverty. — Nils Loc

It always fascinated me how that works. Some of them say that joining gangs is the only way for protection, like maybe god some how would be useless even after praying. Some do it because they get a chance to be violent and for the money they make from it, and pray for forgiveness. The parents always deny that the kids have anything to with gangs while enjoying the benefits and cash of the kids and carry on praying like good catholics.

Something else that always makes me laugh is the football players that pray and cross themselves at the beginning of the game and thank god for the goals they score. Like any god would think it worthwhile to let one side win over the other.