I don't find myself having an experience of being in my room, and an experience of being on the train to work, for instance. — Mr Bee
Saying that you "experienced" and "will experience" something if you mean that in an A-theoretic sense — Mr Bee
Again, if you could please read up on they mean then that would make both of our lives easier. You can still remain neutral even after reading about them and refrain from adopting any of them if you so wish. Why are you making this so hard?
I cannot respond to your comments because they seem like they rest upon a lack of understanding, one that you seem adamant about maintaining. If you don't want to do so, then I don't see the point of continuing to argue with you, given that we will most likely talk past each other like we have been over the past couple of days. — Mr Bee
Nobody needs to commit to any metaphysical theory of time in order to accept P3. — Mr Bee
It makes sense to the common everyday layperson but that doesn't mean it can't be false. The idea that the sun rises and sets would be acceptable to children who don't know any better, but that doesn't mean that the sun revolves around the earth no matter what.
Eternalism isn't common sense. It is not intuitive at all, and it certainly doesn't conform to our everyday beliefs about time. It says things that goes against our everyday notions of time, and that includes the idea that events had or will happen through the passage of time. That is just what it basically says. — Mr Bee
Okay, Eternalism says that the past, the future and the present are all NOW. According to the block universe, every event from the Big Bang to whatever the end of the Universe is like exists NOW. This is in contrast to presentism, which says that only the present moment exists NOW. The Growing Block theory says that the past from the Big Bang to the present exist NOW and that NOW continues to increase with the passage of time. — Mr Bee
If you really aren't interested in learning what the theories are — Mr Bee
So you say. But that is simply just wrong. — Mr Bee
Eternalism says that the past and future exist just as much as the present does. Or to quote someone else: — Mr Bee
I did mention earlier that those terms don't make sense without a flow of time (as the eternalist worm theorist asserts there isn't). That is simply because "will' and "existed" as A-theoretic terms don't make sense under a theory that rejects the A-theory of time! — Mr Bee
Fine then. Which theory of time do you think is true? — Mr Bee
Again, those terms make no sense under eternalism if we are talking about them in A-theoretic terms. You keep saying that they do but apparently you don't know yourself. So either read up on what Eternalism says, or stop making claims about what you think it should say. — Mr Bee
If what you are saying is that the you that exists in every possible sense of the word (NOW) does not exhaust who you are, then I am interested in what else you consider yourself to be since frankly I find that claim implausible. — Mr Bee
I just did. It's called NOW, in accord with the Stanford definition of "existing in the most unrestricted sense", that they themselves call the ontological sense of now. — Mr Bee
Please. The "you" tomorrow and the "you" yesterday. Do they exist in any ontological sense, and are they are part of you NOW? — Mr Bee
The answer to that would again depend upon the theory of time you adopt.
Great then. My argument is that I simply find nothing of the sort in my experience. — Mr Bee
Personally, it seems like the ontological now is more basic than the sense of "now" in terms of temporal location (but I am not saying it is how the english term is used mind you), but whatever. — Mr Bee
Now do you accept it as a way of making my claims, as something that is framed in this "quasi-English" technical sense? If so, then let's just go with the ontological sense of "now" and call it "NOW" just to be absolutely clear. — Mr Bee
Are those other times which have those experiences a part of me right NOW? If not, then they don't count. — Mr Bee
so so much as I am talking about my total experiences, they should, assuming the worm theory, include experiences of all these times. — Mr Bee
So it seems like I am referring to my total experiences — Mr Bee
I don't think anything I can say would help convince you, since not knowing anything about eternalism yourself we are at the point where you will just assume that I am mistaken — Mr Bee
It is just the idea that it has to be "anchored to the speech time" that I find objectionable. — Mr Bee
There are other senses of what "now" could mean, as the Stanford article mentions, — Mr Bee
You seem to be equating "the temporal duration in which I exist", with "my entire life". This is a fact that is only true under certain theories of time. For instance, under the worm theory, we are temporal worms, and are extended through our entire lives, but under presentism and also the stage theory, we are only limited to a single time (note that I am not endorsing presentism here). The use of the former was meant to be neutral with respect to those theories of time.This was the reason why I have assumed presentism in my earlier example, to make clear the distinction between the meanings of both. — Mr Bee
This is why terms such as "will" experienced" that you mentioned earlier make no sense because under a theory in which there is no flow of time, there is no sense in which an even "will" happen. — Mr Bee
All times, existing on a par, can also be said to be "present" in an A-theoretic sense as well. — Mr Bee
So much as you are saying we use the present tense in an argument, assuming by that you mean the common A-theoretic version of "present", it doesn't mean what you normally think it means under common everyday situations, because the situation under the worm theory is quite alien to our usual understanding of things passing from moment to moment through the flow of time. — Mr Bee
It is for this reason why I find unjustified the assumption that my claims about my experience must be anchored to a specific time of speech, — Mr Bee
So even if I clarify what I mean on the specific terms I use, you will still insist on reading them at face value? — Mr Bee
I find that I am only experiencing sitting in my room during the temporal duration in which I exist. (This is what I find through introspection upon my direct experience) — Mr Bee
but I have tried to clarify what I meant by both sentences so what the terms I use mean normally in English shouldn't be relevant, — Mr Bee
Can you explain what "I only experience sitting at my computer" would mean under the habitual view? I just want to get a clearer idea on what you take this to be. — Mr Bee
Do you need me to explain it to you again? If you don't understand what it means, then why have you been insisting that it was contradictory with your habitual claim? — Mr Bee
I said earlier that I did not understand you habitual claim fully. Can you please, in specific detail, explain what that means. — Mr Bee
At the same time, explain what you think having a certain set of experiences only at the time you exist means? — Mr Bee
since as time passes, my experiences will change — Mr Bee
Under the stage theory a similar conception holds, but "I" is merely a label to describe the person the counterparts represent. In this sense "I" also tends to experience other experiences. — Mr Bee
Of course I am not saying that the sorts of things I experience is limited to sitting in a computer, if by that you mean the types of experience I tend to experience. That is not what I am saying at all. — Mr Bee
I thought we were going with the notion of that "I only experience sitting at my computer during the temporal duration of my entire existence" — Mr Bee
In other words, so much as I am subject to a certain set of experiences only I am making the claim with regards to the whole temporal duration in which I exist (whether it be an instant or a lifetime). — Mr Bee
You've been insisting that I use the present tense and I tried to comply with your demands up until this point. — Mr Bee
Thus there is a clear tension between experience and theory here and something's gotta give. However, whereas I take this as "so much worse for the worm theory", it seems that you take the opposite conclusion from me prioritizing theory over experience, which I consider to be a wrong-headed approach. — Mr Bee
As far as I can tell the only reason why you seem to believe my claim to be false is because it is inconsistent with what the worm theory says we should experience. — Mr Bee
What I have insisted is not true was mainly the identification of "now" as "the specific moment in which this utterance is had". Nowhere does that notion come up when I say that I only have a certain set of experiences and nowhere do I even mean anything like that. — Mr Bee
I have proposed an alternative conception of "now", describing the "temporal region in which I exist" as a better description of what I would mean when I would have to use the word now. — Mr Bee
Technically, under something like a layman presentist framework, the word "now" can refer to both the time in which I exist and the time of the utterance, but that is certainly not true under something the worm view (or really any view that allows for a temporally extended experience). — Mr Bee
If you want to convince me that this usage of "now" is somehow mistaken, then you would need to give me more in way of an argument. — Mr Bee
But I was describing them in general, at least I wasn't intentionally specifying a specific time in which something like "I only experience x" rings true. I just mean "I only experience x simpliciter". Just because the set of experiences I have in general happens to be limited to the contents of a single time does not mean that I am saying they are limited to those contents only within that specific context, so I am not sure how you made that connection. — Mr Bee
Certainly my experience of being in my room describes a complex set of experiences. My visual experience of me of the computer screen in front of me, the feeling of sitting in my seat and the feel of the fingers typing on the keyboard, and the silent hum of the background noise. What more do you expect there to be? — Mr Bee
I only find myself having the experience of being in my room in front of my computer and nothing more.
I only find myself having the experience of being in my room in front of my computer and nothing more. — Mr Bee
even if we were to assume that there was a present tense that attaches itself to my claim — Mr Bee
I am not experiencing any other times
I see no reason why we should use the former over the latter. — Mr Bee
I do not experience any other times
That is, are you claiming that one needs a semantic interpretation in order to identify basic tautologies? — Banno
It's easy for someone to claim that you experiencing all of your times, — Mr Bee
I am not saying that I am having them "at a time". Nowhere does such a notion come into my description of what I am experiencing. — Mr Bee
My judgement I am not experiencing any other times