No, they are not proto-conscious. One of their properties is proto-consciousness, which means they have subjective experience. — Patterner

zombie kitten — bert1

There is something it is like to be a human.

these pleasures are extras — Vera Mont

Suffering is a subjective ... — Philosophim

re: Some of h. sapiens' defects (which are self-evident as per e.g. P. Foot, M. Nussbaum): vulnerabilities to

- deprivation (of e.g. sustanence, shelter, sleep, touch, esteem, care, health, hygiene, trust, safety, etc)

- dysfunction (i.e. injury, ill-health, disability)

- helplessness (i.e. trapped, confined, or fear-terror of being vulnerable)

- stupidity (i.e. maladaptive habits (e.g. mimetic violence, lose-lose preferences, etc))

- betrayal (i.e. trust-hazards)

- bereavement (i.e. losing loved ones & close friends), etc ...

... in effect, any involuntary decrease, irreparable loss or final elimination of human agency. — 180 Proof

Why assume that "AI" (i.e. AGI) has to "reference" our morality anyway and not instead develop its own (that might or might not be human-compatible)?
— 180 Proof

What you're saying is that morality is purely subjective. — Philosophim

Excerpts from from a recent [2024] thread Understanding ethics in the case of Artificial Intelligence ...

I suspect we will probably have to wait for 'AGI' to decide for itself whether or not to self-impose moral norms and/or legal constraints and what kind of ethics and/or laws it may create for itself – superceding human ethics & legal theories? – if it decides it needs them in order to 'optimally function' within (or without) human civilization.
— 180 Proof

My point is that the 'AGI', not humans, will decide whether or not to impose on itself and abide by (some theory of) moral norms, or codes of conduct; besides, its 'sense of responsibility' may or may not be consistent with human responsibility. How or why 'AGI' decides whatever it decides will be done so for its own reasons which humans might or might not be intelligent enough to either grasp or accept.— 180 Proof — 180 Proof

My amateur[pseudo] philosophical thesis postulates ... Energy (negative entropy) — Gnomon

Are those meanings the same in ancient Greek and modern English? — Vera Mont

I think Epicurus had a wider vocabulary of pleasures, or pleasurable experiences, than can be accessed via drugs.

Substance dualism does not deny a medium of interaction. The medium is the third element ... — Metaphysician Undercover

We have no objective morality that AI can reference, therefore ... — Philosophim

I don't think human purpose is a problem to be solved. — Vera Mont

pleasure is simple and fleeting; happiness is sustained and complex

There was no “beginning” in the absolute sense. The universe is a creative advance into novelty. It has always been becoming. — PoeticUniverse

The only way computing could bring about a utopian - or at least, reasonable - arrangement for humans is if it were genuinely intelligent and took over control of the economic and political organization of society. But it won't bring about our downfall, either: we're doing that ourselves. — Vera Mont

↪180 Proof I don’t think those posts hold any water, especially given how ai is lately. — Darkneos

As for me - It's not clear the big bang was caused at all. — T Clark

180's own "woo-of-the-gaps" is the metaphysical belief that Matter (clay) can create Mind (idea) by rubbing atoms together. — Gnomon

↪180 Proof seems to think that Whitehead and Gnomon are disguising primitive Animism and Spiritualism under the more sciency label of Process[ghost in the machine] — Gnomon

[Energy] its insubstantial substance

... you ever teach before? — DifferentiatingEgg

... some book recommendations?

e.g. "Water is wet and wobbly. Therefore water is wet." — bert1

Eternity or Block-Time — Gnomon

My worldview is both immanent and Transcendent ...

Enjoy it while you can. — Tobias

And thus spoke the little old woman: You go to women? Do not forget the whip! — Thus Spoke Zarathustra

It delights me to note from year to year how long it takes for much that happens to one to become inner experience. It is only in old age that this process is completed, and for this reason it is right and proper to grow truly old, despite the less pleasant reverse side in the shape of infirmity. It seems to be that this is true even in matters of the intellect, not only in the emotional life. — Letter to Freud

Read Stenger and Dawkings[Hawking] and 180 Proof and Poetic Universe! — PoeticUniverse

'Nothing' cannot even be meant.

All philosophies & religions have postulated some First Cause or Prime Mover ... — Gnomon

But the God Hypothesis is a Causal explanation — Gnomon

Re: legacy of absentee / abusive fathers reinforced by pervasive religious-cultural misogyny — 180 Proof

Is there such a legacy really? — Tobias

The pervasive religious and cultural misogyny I understand, but what happened to the fathers in your opinion?

There may well be a link. Before the second world war fathers were regularly absent, drinking in the bars. I do not know what happened in the 1960s or 1970s. There might well be something there, but how have the sins of the father [& the mother] influenced our current state as men and women?

Why would someone [@Gregory] that studies philosophy go off into such an odd absolutist reading of femininity and masculinity?

Well, people are strange, when you're a stranger...

.. that doesn’t mean we have to tolerate dehumanizing statements. — DasGegenmittel

Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. — George Carlin

Many great[MALE] thinkers thru history have warned men about females. — Gregory

Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits. — Ludwig Wittgenstein

There's no joy without suffering, no life without death. The entire reality we exist in is formed around this cyclical dual phasing. We are part of this reality, this nature as all beings, only we are aware of this cycle in a way no other animal is.

But that also gives us a responsibility to handle this knowledge; it is both a burden and a blessing to have it. Not to see the suffering of others, but to form a balance and harmony with the reality of it. We can't reject our existence in that sense, we need to harmonize with it. With all concepts of it. Life, death, the cycle; entropy perceiving itself. So... perceive it and don't waste this experience of being. We can fight for all to experience it as well, to gain the well being of experiencing reality; but we cannot disconnect anyone or ourselves from death itself, or their part in the cycle.

We are all food for nature, in some form or another. Like the bacteria in our guts slowly eating us through life only to fully consume us in death. They've cultivated us as their cattle, nurtured in symbiosis until the final feast of their lives. — Christoffer

I wish I never existed. — Truth Seeker

I think about suicide every day and have done so for 37 years. The main reason I haven't killed myself is that it would cause suffering to my family and extended family. I would love to be happy. I would love to be cured of my CPTSD, Bipolar Disorder and Chronic Nerve Pain. — Truth Seeker

I [am] assuming an existence that doesn't interact with the physical world in a way we can detect. — TiredThinker

... if our thoughts on the origins of the universe shift a lot each time we get a new telescope resolution

Without a clear purpose what can we know, and with our lifespans being virtually nothing compared to the duration of the universe how can we even determine themes and patterns.