Well, no, they need to differ in some way. But if they are propositions, then having a truth-value is not where they can differ, because having a truth-value is what propositions do. — Seppo
If hinge propositions don't have a truth-value, then they are not propositions. — Seppo
Hinge propositions not being propositions is self-contradictory. — Seppo
Hinge propositions are set apart from other propositions not in virtue of lacking a truth-value, but in their inability to be justified, — Seppo
If hinge propositions are different from "propositions in general", then hinge propositions need not bear a truth-value.
— Luke
That's not valid reasoning, and it's not cogent. — Banno
If hinge propositions were sufficiently different to other propositions so as not to be truth bearing, they would arguably no longer be propositions. — Banno
I'm not sure one can have a rule that is not a proposition. — Banno
A rule presumably says how things should be, and how they should be is a possible state of affairs, and hence a proposition. — Banno
When we learn rules, we do not learn content, but a technique, a skill, a mastery – how to proceed. To follow a rule is not to make a judgement, but to make a move. — Daniele Moyal-Sharrock, Wittgenstein's Hinge Certainty
If hinge propositions are different from propositions (in general), then hinge propositions are not propositions (in general). — Luke
Siamese are different from other cats, lets' say.
You want to conclude that Siamese are therefore not cats. — Banno
Where's Sam26? — Banno
It remains to be demonstrated that siamese cats are of the same type as cats in general. — Banno
That would depend on how they differ. You cannot just assume that they are the same in the respect of being the same. — Luke
Right, he never uses the phrase "hinge propositions"... but, as I have already pointed out, and you either ignored and forgot, he does refer to them as "propositions". So, they have a truth-value. Because having a truth-value is to propositions what having three sides is to triangles.Wittgenstein never called them "hinge propositions". — Luke
Apparently you have no interest in discussing whether or not hinge propositions are propositions, or in discussing Wittgenstein's work. — Luke
The same is true when speaking of bedrock or hinge beliefs when it comes to truth, in a bedrock setting, they are neither true nor false. — Sam26
200. Really "The proposition is either true or false" only means that it must be possible to decide for
or against it. But this does not say what the ground for such a decision is like.
As stated this is misleading. It not not that they are neither true nor false, but rather that the question of their being true is not there from the beginning. When a baby takes its first steps it is either true or false that the floor or ground will support their weight, but such a consideration does not come into play. — Fooloso4
Not all hinges should be regarded as the same. The hinge proposition that 12x12=144 is true. How could such propositions not be true? — Fooloso4
he does refer to them as "propositions — Seppo
But that means I want to conceive it [certainty] as something that lies beyond being justified or
unjustified; as it were, as something animal.(OC 359)
I want to regard man here as an animal; as a primitive being to which one grants instinct but
not ratiocination. As a creature in a primitive state. Any logic good enough for a primitive means of
communication needs no apology from us. Language did not emerge from some kind of
ratiocination. (OC 475)
Because the basic propositions of mathematics function like rules, grammatical rules, it's not a matter of them being true or false, generally speaking, no more than a rule of chess is true or false in it's background setting. — Sam26
The mathematical propositions you're referring to are not bedrock. Their use in terms of your bank account have nothing to do with what I'm am talking about, and definitely nothing to do with what W. is trying to communicate in OC. — Sam26
340. We know, with the same certainty with which we believe any mathematical proposition
655. The mathematical proposition has, as it were officially, been given the stamp of
incontestability. I.e.: "Dispute about other things; this is immovable - it is a hinge on which your dispute can turn."
You seem to be confusing the mathematical propositions with their application. It is because the mathematical propositions 1+1=2, 100+100=200, 12x12=144 an so on are true that we can calculate a bank balance correctly. — Fooloso4
Wittgenstein never called them "hinge propositions".
— Luke
Right, he never uses the phrase "hinge propositions"... but, as I have already pointed out, and you either ignored and forgot, he does refer to them as "propositions". So, they have a truth-value. Because having a truth-value is to propositions what having three sides is to triangles. — Seppo
For myself I don't think of hinge-propositions as propositions, — Sam26
I don't learn to calculate because 1+1=2 is true, no more than I learn to move a bishop because it's true that bishops move diagonally. I act in accord with how others act when they calculate or move bishops. — Sam26
When we learn to calculate we simply learn a skill — Sam26
There is a certainty to mathematical propositions, but that certainty is a way of acting, not a certainty based on truth or falsity. — Sam26
654. "The multiplication '12x12', when carried out by people who know how to calculate, will in the great majority of cases give the result '144'." Nobody will contest this proposition, and naturally it is not a mathematical one. But has it got the certainty of the mathematical proposition?
Then best to stop referring to them as such. Better to call them just "hinges". Moyal-Sharrock uses "Hinge certainties", a small improvement over "Hinge propositions", although to my eye a certainty is propositional. — Banno
The fact that something can be stated as a proposition does not mean that all hinges are propositional, or should be analyzed in terms of propositions. — Fooloso4
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