I think you read it slightly wrong. My take is that Adorno says that identity philosophy despite claiming bottomlessness with its absolute, solid grounds, and scolding negative dialectics for lack of bottom, is in reality the epitome of bottomlessness. The fact that it doesn't recognize this, consists in its untruth. This is why he says that the objection of bottomlessness "needs to be turned against the intellectual principle which preserves itself as the sphere of absolute origins", it's a turntable, ah you said so yourself. And so the untruth lies in the claim, not in the bottomless itself. — Pussycat
So it seems that he is really against any absolutizations, then, one would say that he is a relativist, since you must either be the one or the other. — Pussycat
But the flow of time implies that the relation with the past and the future is not discontinuous. — JuanZu
Here you lost me. Can you explain this? — JuanZu
They cannot be two consciousnesses as two substances. Because we have to guarantee the unity of experience, for example that the past is a past of mine just as the future is a future of mine. In this sense we are body, where non-presents and non-consciousnesses constitute us. This body is the world that constitutes us. — JuanZu
It is not a dualism it is simply two dimensions that relate to the present. But the important thing is that they are constitutive and non-present. In that sense consciousness is constituted by that which is not it. We do not perceive these dimensions in themselves unlike the present. There is something that is not conscious that constitutes consciousness. I call it the form of the world because we normally understand the world as something beyond consciousness and distinct from experience. There is an analogy with the non-present and the non-conscious. — JuanZu
Thanks to Husserl's analyses, we understand that consciousness is constituted at this level by diferences in protensions and retentions. — JuanZu
This implies that there is always a non-present side with which consciousness is continuously in contact. This non-present is precisely the form of the world, as something not given in consciousness. — JuanZu
But that non-present is fundamental to consciousness and its functioning. — JuanZu
There's no reason to deny that physical objects cause perception of physical objects. — AmadeusD
He doesn't say that bottomlessness relates to untruth, rather the opposite, that the acknowledgment of it is what touches truth. Negative dialectics, being foundationless and non-unitarian - better, a dialectics which is no longer “pinned” to identity - will be either accused of: — Pussycat
The vertigo which this creates is an index veri [Latin: index of truth]; the
shock of the revelation, the negativity, or what it necessarily seems to
be amidst what is hidden and monotonous, untruth only for the untrue.
Here I think he is alluding to Heidegger, not Hegel. — Pussycat
Heidegger, by throwing away first principles, arrived at Being. But this Being, according to Adorno, is neither absolute, nor free in itself, it is still dependent on what is thought. When philosophy forgets this and hypostasizes its own creations - without relation to what is being thought - it becomes irrational, null and stupid. — Pussycat
I am saying that the apple remains on the table because the table is exerting an upward force that stops the apple from falling — RussellA
Being intellectual they are entirely abstract and an invention of the human thinking mind. So we cannot say anything about what they are, or aren’t. But they are inferred because if we experience appearances, then they must be appearances of something. Something which is inaccessible to us, because if they were accessible to us, they would be appearances. — Punshhh
Only the elements are apart of the set. — Banno
According to general relativity, an apple on a table is subject to a force and because subject to a force is therefore accelerating, actively accelerating. (Wikipedia - g force) — RussellA
The question is if things - objects - have a nature independent of our (a way of being or existence). I think they do, but if they do, the way they exist must be completely incomprehensible to us. — Manuel
Please don't take this personally, but the reason I often don't respond to your posts is that it seems as though your interpretation of what I've said that you're disagreeing with seems to me so far from what I intended that I find it difficult to get enough purchase on what you are saying to respond. — Janus
You keep saying things like this, but it is so clearly false. — Metaphysician Undercover
Rutabaga has a chromosome number of 2n = 38. It originated from a cross between turnip (Brassica rapa) and Brassica oleracea. The resulting cross doubled its chromosomes, becoming an allopolyploid. This relationship was first published by Woo Jang-choon in 1935 and is known as the Triangle of U.
For example, the property of redness would be identified with the set of all red things, or the property of being a car would be identified with the set of all cars. — litewave
I don't believe you have any real doubt that the everyday objects we encounter constantly have their own existence, which does not rely on our perceiving them. — Janus
You are assuming that instants of time, static states of existence, are metaphysically possible. — RussellA
It is more likely that there are not instants in time but rather durations of time. It would follow that the apple being on the table is part of an active situation. — RussellA
Your argument is something like:
We derived our idea of existence from our cognitive experience, therefore nothing can exist apart from its being cognized. — Janus
We perceive the extendedness of objects; that is what space is. — Janus
It is an undeniable aspect of experience that people see the same things at the same time and place down to the smallest detail. — Janus
Even though the verb "is" expresses a state of existence, the phrase "is on" suggests a temporary situation, as in the apple is on the table, the apple is under the table or the apple is on the floor.
The apple currently being on the table is part of an active situation. — RussellA
The separation of objects just is the space between them. — Janus
On the other hand I can say I perceive the space between objects, albeit usually more or less filled up with other objects. I do perceive space but I don't perceive empty space. — Janus
Yes, to express a complete idea, a sentence needs both a verb (an activity) and generally a noun (object).
There is no complete idea in "apple", but there is in "the apple is on the table".
As Wittgenstein wrote in Tractatus "the world is the totality of facts, not of things", where "the apple is on the table" is a fact because it encompasses relations between things. — RussellA
What has never entered your mind is not anything, obviously. And when it has entered your mind, it has done so via the senses, and has been interpreted by your intellect. What is outside that, neither exists nor does not exist. It is not yet anything, but that doesn't mean it's nothing. This is not dogma. — Wayfarer
Then we can speculate that things in themselves may exist in their own space and time... — Janus
Kilograms. That is how we do physics. — I like sushi
Is this to say, in Aristotle things come with identity? — Mww
Identity being what a thing is, in Kant, identity is assigned to things, not for what it is, but for as what it is to be known. — Mww
That is a stretch too far. We can -- and do -- measure matter. — I like sushi
Here he is explicit: sensation provides the matter of appearances, while space and time are the form in which that matter is ordered. — Wayfarer
If it is true in Aristotle matter acquires form to become particular substance, and because it is true in Kant matter acquires form to become particular phenomena, then originally to both is matter, which leaves Kantian noumena, as it relates to matter, out in the cold…...right where it’s supposed to be. — Mww
If only those many people would just study the damn book. One does not have to accept what he’s saying, but should comprehend the point he’s making, the major premise in the “ground of the division of all objects”. — Mww
So are we not forced to admit, insofar as Kant offers no definition of what a noumenon is, offers no descriptions of what a noumenon would be like, but authorizes (B115) its validity as a mere possible, non-contradictory, conception, there can be no talk of noumena as such, but only the conception itself, represented by that word, which is actually nothing other than talk of the modus operandi of the faculty of understanding in opposition to its own rules? — Mww
One might consider such a sentence to be superfluous considering, surely, there are people alive, perhaps even living quite well, who don't hold the beliefs you do. — Outlander
Exactly, fulfils the definition of a metaphor.
A metaphor is a figure of speech that describes one thing as if it were another.
For example, saying "time is a thief" or "2+3=5". — RussellA
The metaphor
We understand abstract ideas by making them concrete, as described by George Lakoff and Mark Johnson in their book Metaphors We Live By 1980. For example, we understand the abstract concept of argument by making it concrete, as in "argument is war". We understand an abstract feeling by making it concrete, as in "I am feeling low". — RussellA
Set theory
Frege and Russell proposed defining a natural number n as the collection of all sets with n elements. Set theory is foundational to mathematics. Set theory provides a framework whereby operations such as addition can be built from first principles (Wikipedia - set theory)
The abstract addition of the natural numbers 2 and 3 can be achieved within the framework of a set theory that is built on concrete first principles, similar to the function of the metaphor. — RussellA
Not true―in the determinist picture there are both exogenous and endogenous causes of action. — Janus
Potential is a different thing to the noumenal, which is what we have been discussing. If something has a potential it is built into the actuality of the thing, and is real in that sense. — Janus
So, I would say that actual potential exists, but that what it is potential for does not exist until it is actualized. — Janus
Addition is a metaphorical concept, because one thing, namely 2 + 3, refers to a different thing, namely 5. — RussellA
Explain to me then what it could mean to say that something is, and yet that it neither exists nor does not exist? — Janus
Unfortunately that is not a sensible, or even meaningful, thing to say.. — Janus
I found Matt Strassler's article about matter and energy very interesting, as it casts doubt on the assumption that matter is energy. Perhaps the equation of the two is simplistic. I need to explore this question further. — Janus
For me the fact that the mind is not "passive recorder" is uncontroversial. We are affected by what is external to our bodies via the senses... — Janus
Presumably it's possible because I have experienced the universe and I have registered that it can exist without conscious minds. — Barkon
A metaphor is a figure of speech that in mentioning one thing actually refers to another thing. For example, the symbol "+" in mathematics refers to the combining of sets. — RussellA
With these human beings fear they will lose everything, because they have no other happiness, also none within thought, than what you can hold on to yourself, perennial
unfreedom.
Even in the logical abstraction-form of the
Something, as something which is meant or judged, which for its part
does not claim to constitute anything existent, indelibly survives that
which thinking would like to cancel out, whose non-identity is that
which is not thinking.
The objection of
bottomlessness needs to be turned against the intellectual principle
which preserves itself as the sphere of absolute origins; there however,
where ontology, Heidegger first and foremost, hits bottomlessness, is
the place of truth.
Only those thoughts which go to extremes can face up to the
all-powerful powerlessness of certain agreement; only mental
acrobatics relate to the thing, which according to the fable convenu
[French: agreed-upon fiction] it holds in contempt for the sake of its
self-satisfaction.
The consistency of its execution, however, the density of the web, enables it to hit what it should.
Taking one example, that of the mathematical concept of zero.
A metaphor is a figure of speech that in mentioning one thing actually refers to another thing, such as "all the world's a stage".
As with Derrida's concept of différance, absence is as important as presence. It is the absence of meaning that allows the presence of interpretation to emerge (Wikipedia - Jacques Derrida).
Zero is metaphorical in that it turns absence into presence. Zero refers to nothing, but it has the sense of something. — RussellA
That is the nature of language, where concepts are about the sense of things in the world rather than refer to things in the world (Frege). — RussellA