Inform us, Excellency, as to why these men were so decadent and immoral they make Rasputin look like a saint. — Frank Apisa

Think inquisitions and witch burning and if you need more, come back, after you do the research that proves my words.

Regards
DL,

Seriously? The same women continuously vote the parties who advocate globalism and unlimited third world mass immigration because it feels so good? By and large, the female vote has been a disaster. — Nobeernolife

As compared to our last 5,000 years of disastrous male driven war history.

Go give your testosterone filled head a shake.

You might wonder, after clearing the garbage, why the 20,000 years prior to our disgusting history, we had peace under the goddesses.

Try learning from our past mistakes.

Regards
DL

And oh do these people love to point their fingers at others and say how bad they are. — Athena

The log eyed telling the splinter eyed how to look , meanwhile if you threatened to use their theistic law on then, they would cry like babies to be judged by the moral secular law instead of their god's immoral and unjust laws. From their no divorce law and their stoning children for acting out injustice.

Their hypocrisy is legendary.

Regards
DL

First. Let me say that Rome and Christianity have worked quite hard to reduce the gains that women had made before they took over the West. Before that Judaism was well on it's way to an equal view of women. Their myth was based on Sumer and Egyptian myths and both those peoples had a high view of women. Cleopatra, the Hollywood version aside, rules a land greater than Rome before it failed.

When life is good, and a man and woman respect each other and work together, no one needs to be a god. :wink:[/quote]

I know what you mean but have my own twisted view of equality.

Equality before the law is of course a given. No argument.

Should push comes to shove though, like at times of emergency or war, I would follow the law of the sea, and like it or not, my wife and kid and other women and children are in that life boat

And there had better not be a member of the Captain Coward Club in the boat or he will move at my hand. If that is macho to some, fuck um.

Perhaps this could be brought back on topic? What would be the characteristics of an ideal ideology?

My own Gnostic Christianity, of course. Kidding, somewhat.

A few thoughts.
It would offer the electorate, be it political or religious, the maximum amount of freedom of speech and actions that can be gained in a controlled system where the larger laws or sins are governed by law.
Those would be murder, theft, etc.

One feature it would have would be a socio economic demographic pyramid that is intentionally controlled by statistics so that there is no official poverty. You might recognize that poverty in rich nations like what we have today is imposed via the tax systems and IMO that is immoral. Gandhi thought the same if I may name drop.

I would also have mine set up by guild so as to change the focus of each of us just applying greed to our worth, to that of concentrating more on moving up honestly within our guilds for the glory alone, even as the cash would come automatically.

My best ideology would have a leader who was tyrannical when it came to administrating law, but super flexible and curious to see if he or his his people could come up with better laws to follow.

That seeking for better law idea is not only in my Gnostic Christianity but it was also a trait of Egypt, which was one of the best well run societies of the old world in terms of freedom and equality for all.

It would also be run more by experts and crown corporations than elected people who get there by name recognition like what happens today when people elect T V stars that are basically ill suited or incompetent in leading.

It would also reward whistle blowers handsomely, instead of trying to quiet them or jail them the way most governments do today, while telling us that more should whistle blow. Hypocrites those.

I am sure I have left many issues unanswered but did not want to write a wall of text. I live by the old 6 inch rule. Ask away on any issue of particular interest to you.

Regards
DL — Athena

Had he never ated the apple — god must be atheist

I was just wondering why you use the term apple.

Why not tell the truth in that we are talking about the knowledge of everything?

IOW, an education. Why tell Adam to stay uneducated and stupid.

Regards
DL

For verily I say unto you: for Adam, to fully understand sinfulness, he had to have a sense of what's evil and what's not, so he had to eat the apple in order to appreciate that eating the apple was a sin. — god must be atheist

IOW, Yahweh punished a child who did not know he was doing anything wrong.

You do know that secular law would say that Adam did not pass the mens rea test and was not guilty of anything because he had no evil intent or evil mind.

Every court on earth would say that Yahweh did a poor judgement and Adam was innocent.

Add in that you sing that Adam's sim was a happy fault and necessary to god's paln and your view falls apart.

If you were Adam, would you further Yahweh's plan and sin, or would you derail Yahweh's great plan and not sin?

Regards
DL

Ditto, a hole sore loser..

Regard
DL

I will be hugely disappointed if people in a philosophy forum do not respond. — Athena

Don't be, because I think, in all my travels, that I have only met a few people that I would call anything like philosophical students of talents.

I do have a few places I can link you to though should you want to be more prolific.

Don't go by my judgement though because I am a generalist and not the specialist type you are.

I also do not draw out a debate and tend to go for the throat to see if my interlocutor has anything to offer. In religion, most don't.

Regards
DL

It is urgent that we understand why Christians have again formed into a life-threatening fascist state. — Athena

Let me put my PHD to work here. I say that in jest as Christians see me as, --- P for pure, H for hell bound and D for Dummy.

I have no degree but will see if I can get you to see it as I do with a nut shell view.

This link shows a situation that has replicated itself in modern times by new Muslims. Just in different locations. Apologies for its length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y&feature=youtu.be

If you have listened to Christian complaints of persecution, you will know that most Christians have now been forced out of the Middle east except for the Jews in Israel.

If you were to visualize a map and Muslim incursion by immigration, and their creation of militia groups to mimic the Christian ones in the U.S., you would see that the Muslim long range play book has not changed. They tend to infiltrate to where their numbers are high enough to capture territory.

They will continue to do so till either secular forces or Christian religious forces push back like they had to do the last time they faced annihilation.

When you have two fascist forced opposing each other, only death can stop the colonialism that each religion is designed to do. Islam wants a Kalifate and Christianity wants their pope to rule the world. On earth as it is in heaven.

The same insecurity that had Trump focus his entry ban on Muslim countries when he first took office and his cozying up to his right wing fundamental chums is likely what got his vile self elected.

Add in the fact that the some of the Northern European states have already started pushing back by asking Muslims to leave.

Also add that they changed some of their laws to be anti-Muslim. --- and add in the French style laisite/secularism that France and Quebec are into, --- and I hope, will be the model for the rest of the free world, --- and you will see why Muslims will continue and likely increase in their infiltration of non-Muslim and Sharia law lands.

The weaker the West looks to right wing Christianity, the more right wing it will vote, as demonstrated by trump and his twin Boris in England. You might also recognise that France and Germany have also swung to the right.

I think we are seeing a replica of the past, just before the West finally stopped fighting internally and started to push Islam back to it's homeland.

I think that after that next major push back and war, the world will be so fed up with vile genocidal god loving religions that both Islam and Christianity will be outlawed for the vile inhumane religions that they are.

The Noble Lie that those religions are good will finally be repealed and peace will finally come to this earth, --- if we have not polluted ourselves into extinction with our other Noble Lies about what man should be eating.

I hope my quick connecting of dots make sense to you?

I am a sprinter and not long winded when I write. Too undisciplined and I tend to prof too quickly like most P H Dummies.

Regards
DL

P.S. I just picked up the book Soon. It recognizes religions as the greatest enemy to world peace. It is talking of the distant past at present but think it may posit the kind of world I see. You will perhaps know that the U.N. already has religious schools that teach a universalist type of religion close to this Gnostic Christian's ideology. I have always been about 30 years ahead of my time in my thinking and wont live to see if my speculations are true or not, but watch Gnostic Christianity with it's unbeatable moral ideology end as the world religion.

The demand to have only one story wiped out the other ones as part of enabling the growth of power in a secular world. — Valentinus

True that it was all about power and cash and matching the hierarchical power structure of Rome.

Power in the religious world as well.

Not wanting the peasantry to have to support the lazy and lying church hierarchy was a big part of the Gnostic thinking.

Not wanting our god to be evil like Yahweh was another.

If you know of the first few popes, you will know how decadent and immoral those popes were.

They make Rasputin look like a saint.

Have you noted how Christianity today demand the freedom of religion that they murdered so many to prevent in the past?

Hypocrisy is an accurate epithet here.

Regards
DL

Stress is only ONE of the bad things. Not all bad things are stress.

This is another concept of set theory; that some of the bad things are stress, and some of the bad things are not stress. Being opposite to good is bad, but being opposite to good is not always stress, only some of the time. — god must be atheist

You make weird analogy that I can't agree with.

Good goes with evil, not stress.

Bad goes with good, not stress.

You seem to think that stress can be a good thing. Give an example or two please, of good stress.

From the definition.

2. a state of mental or emotional strain or tension resulting from adverse or very demanding circumstances.

I can give you that competitive stress --- might --- help a runner of swimmer reach a certain mind set, but if that stress actually helps his performance, IDK.

Is that what you were thinking with your view that stress can be good? If so, do you have performance stats to show the good?

Regards
DL

Stress is a response i.e. it doesn't arise spontaneously without a cause — TheMadFool

I have already agreed on this and pointed to the government imposing poverty as the trigger to the stress they cause in the poor. I include the lower middle classes in my critique.

Regards
DL

A modern Canadian, I see. — ssu

More of a redneck with a working brain.

Although some are telling me that I am starting to express myself like an educated person, even with my French influenced grammar.

I guess I can fool some people some of the time.

Regards
DL

it's not stress but disease, — TheMadFool

Stress lowers the immune system and allows those diseases you have in mind to nail the poor harder than the rest of us who are better fed and housed and who can pay for medical services.

I think that link speaks of the various conditions that target the most stressed.

Regards
DL

You do know you are an American. Would North American be better? — ssu

If I ignore my political and geographical location, I am an Earthman on spaceship Earth.

As a Gnostic Christian, I am a universalist and since we are all pollution each other's environment, I think the world should start thinking the same sane way and stop thinking of their little tribe as important and join the human tribe.

That is how you love all of your neighbors

Ownership and having influence over decisions are two different things. — ssu

Pfffft.

The owner who is paying the bill and buying off the guy you voted for almost always gets his way.

Regards
DL

Where I live, it is practically unthinkable that people would starve to death or freeze, — Tzeentch

Here in Canada as well, yet too many die on the streets and in their cars every year, be it from heat or cold.

Where do you live?

Yet, people are still stressed out about so called 'poverty'.

Why is that? — Tzeentch

Because they are poor and the human animal is born the weakest and most insecure animal on the planet.

Regards
DL

but you have to still make the separation between corporations and the public sector. — ssu

Why, when the corporate heads own your government and writes it's legislation for it?

We all live in oligarchies and they, our masters, would have it no other way.

Regards
DL

You aren't SO important. — ssu

I hope that was a royal you as I am not an American, thank all the god.

I am a Canadian.

I see the older Americans as moral and contributing a hell of a lot to democracy.

The new Americans are a cowed and slaved people who fear their governments instead of the government fearing the people.

Canadian are about 75 25 with the 25 fearing the government.

That may be why our government does not lie nearly as much to us as the American government lies to it's coed people.

I liked and miss the older styled American's. Cowards I do not like.

I wish Americans would find their balls.

Regards
DL

Our failure to be aware of what Christians have done to our democracy and what they are trying to do, is perhaps the worst reality the world has ever faced. Germany was a very small country with very limited resources compared to the US that has adopted the German model of bureaucracy and German model of education for technology for military and industrial purposes. Does that answer the question in the title of this thread? — Athena

Partly.

It shows how the dumbing down of America and much of the West that has been doing on has been successful and not enough Americans want to be the fittest as most have settled for being sheeple instead of thinking people.

I hope it does not take as long to reverse that trend. I want the West to dominate, idea wise, and not a less progressive regime. I think China is kicking our rumps.

I do not think I am pushing too hard when I say Christians want a sugar daddy.

The only thing that could sell them on the notion that a genocidal and infanticidal satanic god, and his homophobic and misogynous religion can somehow be a good god, is if his rewards for them are just as extreme. That is why they are all hopping to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven. Sugar daddy or scapegoat Jesus. Same thing.

I think we are close in thinking though,. Mine are just testosterone influenced while your estrogen tempers your sharper edge.

Women should rule the world and not men. It would make future negotiations for the huge problems coming our world way a lot easier to find solutions to.

Regards
DL

I totally agree with you, but I think we are engaging Christians and I want to stress science has done more for us than religion in terms a religious person might grasp. — Athena

Engaging with Christians in the progressive left wing that uses logos is not so bad. Trying to talk sense to those who use mythos and are mostly too far gone to have an intelligent chat with.

Thanks for the great reply.

You are an example of why women should not shut up in church or told not to teach men anything.

Regards
DL

People can stress by thought alone, even while in the least stressful of environments. So “outside triggers” aren’t necessarily a given. — NOS4A2

They are stressing from their own thought, no argument, but the though is of a real or imagined issue from outside the brain. Take that trigger away, and your stress will never come.

If an outside trigger is not a given, give one example of self-induced stress that does not have one, other than stressing on if our insides are working well or not.

Regards
DL

I don't think there's a sinister ploy here. — ssu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmo6lZcdkO0

This same guy had another project on the various U.S. government entities like the EPA, that are supported by some of the worse polluters on the planet.

I am not a conspiracy nut but some facts cannot be ignored.

Regards
DL

My point is that stress is self-generated, that it begins in the brain. — NOS4A2

I just see poor grammar. As a Frenchman I try to be careful with English.

If self generated and harmful to us, why would a brain or mind subject itself to what is not good for it?

You seem to be aware of a cause from outside, yet maintain your self-generated view.

The brain does indeed produce the stress, but not without an ouside issue to pull the trigger of the brains self-creating stress.

A cat might create t's own stress, but to ignore that there was a G D dog after it is quite foolish.

Regards
DL

For instance, two people can be in the same environment, with one perceiving a threat while the other doesn’t. Only one will experience the stress. If they are both in the same environment and in the presence of the same environmental forces, why don’t they both experience stress? Because one perceived and interpreted a threat and one didn’t—because stress begins in the brain. — NOS4A2

Can you come up with a real world scenario because your two people are obviously not anywhere near the same. If one reacts to a threat, one is normal. You posit someone not reacting to a threat, or not recognizing it, and that indicates that one is a lot smarter than the other.

Apples and oranges to me.

Regards
DL

(Not to say these folks wouldn't change if we all did - the times are harsh - the Gov ain't heartless) — xyzmix

A good reply but this quote., Hmm.

I don't think I would want a government with a heart.

I think I would prefer a government with a decent brain that would produce policies where, even if some new leader with a heart and no intelligence was elected, he would not have to change a thing.

Logic and reason have all they need to know that it is not profitable for a demography to have an unhealthy base.

Most of us have our hearts at the right place. It is the governments and their oligarch owners that need hearts, and a smartening up of their brains to right moral thinking.

Law is more important than heart as it, if well written, will have mercy built in and that should please every heart.

Regards
DL

Umm... you think those are caused by our rulers or governments? — ssu

I do to a large extent.

Have you noted, for instance the government food guide in the U.S. shows a really poor diet which is meat heavy and vegetable poor.

That is a part of why the death age rate in the U.S. is dropping while it is going up in most other countries.

Your overly expensive health care also cause a lot of stress and poor health but Americans do not seem to care about each other to do anything about that heavy source of stress.

That is your government killing Americans prematurely.

Regards
DL

I think this issue has more to do with people adopting government's/nation's ideas of success, than governments trying to make their citizens miserable. — Tzeentch

The people are the government. People doing the bidding of their oligarch owners.

If your people's ideas of success is to have a government that imposes poverty, then your country is not living in in best moral way. Neither would mine.

The world is quite rich today, richer than it has even been, and to continue imposing poverty is quite immoral.

Regards
DL

Being in a bad lot is not stressful. — god must be atheist

Does being in a good lot bring happiness and joy for life?

Why would the opposite not produce the opposite, which would be synonymous with stress?

Regards
DL

Stress itself begins and ends in biology. — NOS4A2

So the outside cause is not a part of what has the body create stress.

Watch that link again. is all I can say. If you cannot believe a genius on this issue ------ not to mention logic and reason then -------

Regards
DL

I’m pretty sure the body causes stress, not governments. — NOS4A2

Your body creates stress all on it's own without outside influence.

Ok.

You might want to watch that link again, for the first time.

Regards
DL

GCB nothing to disagree with there. And to answer you rhetorical question, of course they should. — bert1

I do not quite see it as rhetorical, but then again, I am a Gnostic Christian and all question are pertinent in one way or another. If not just the information from those who answer.

Regards
DL

So back when we had real authoritarian regimes or feudalism, that wasn't stressful? — ssu

I am sure it was.

Have we not learned more from science than they knew back them?

Yes we have, so let's start with the best knowledge and ignore the past.

Regards
DL

It's a Pandora's Box tale. — Marchesk

Yes, while ignoring that it has to all be a part of god's plan.

That plan cannot be derailed as it would show an incompetent god whose plan can be derailed by those he himself created.

Foolish thinking but that is the Christian forte that stems from dysfunctional supernatural thinking.

Regards
DL

"The word" is English for logos, reason, the controlling force of the universe made manifest in the speech. — Athena

You are why Christian men, and their brain dead women, are misogynous.

Intelligent though scares the hell out of Christian men and the women who dream of some sugar daddy to protect them.

Using logos instead of mythos would force them to be better and they want to resist that.

They fear loosing the carrot and gladly take the stick, while cursing the brave who call their immoral satanic god evil.

May we return to Goddess worship before we become a part of the major extinction event we are causing.

Regards
DL.

Biblical terminology can be useful when we think abstractly and harmful when we think concretely and start hunting witches. — Athena

Especially when the test for witches cannot be passed and is intended to kill all the witches that are accused.

Inquisitions and witch hunts are how Christianity grew, because they did not have persuasive moral view to convert with.

Not surprising given the fascist nature of Christianity and Islam. I exclude Judaism only because they have mostly become all atheists or agnostics. The smart ones anyway. They have been listening to their more intelligent and honest preachers longer, while Christtians and Muslims are busy believing theit lying preachers.

Regards
DL

That assumes no other justification. — Hanover

No other justification is offered in the scriptures so it is an informed assumption.

A & E chose education over eternal life without it, even though the scribes made them unable to really choose, not knowing if they were choosing good or evil.

Do you see any other justification for Yahweh to murder A & E by neglect and willfully denying them what would have kept them alive, if they were stupid enough to choose immortality?

Regards
DL

To believe in a God who loves you in the Christian sense is to be a narcissist who wants everyone to be a narcissist.

Why would you not want to be infinite and perfect? — Gregory

A fascist religion would not have it any other way.

To your last.

Perfection or being the best human you can be is a decent goal.

We know that matter and energy are immortal, even as they change from one form to the other on an ongoing basis, but I cannot see our consciousness as even wanting to live forever.

To live infinitely, would be the most boring existence, I think, and would leave us all wishing we could die.

That matches the thinking of Shangri-La writers.

Regards
DL

I think science has done more to overcome evil than religion. — Athena

We see religions the same way. Other than my own of course.

I do not see any evil in nature. To be evil, nature would need to show intent to harm. Nature only shows that it supports all life and does not care who the winners or losers are. It cannot as it is not sentient.

All evil is human to human as we are the only ones who pass the mens rea qualifier used in secular law. It is Latin for evil mind or evil intent that is primarily used in insanity cases.

We are evolving creatures that can only compete or cooperate with each other.

We default to cooperation which gives good results all around and only do evil to the losers of competitions when we choose to compete.

Survival of the fittest says we have to do one or the other.

In a sense, we are all sinners and have to be to survive.

Religions just screw up on the definition of sin.

The above is why I have no, --- problem of evil.

Be we created by a god or nature, we are all doing exactly what we were created to do.

That view explains why Jesus saw heaven right here and right now at all points in time.

Few, as he indicated, have the mentality to see it.

Regards
DL

I see it as a fable...and the only "moral" conclusion I see drawn is of failure on the part of the humans to the will of the god. — Frank Apisa

I too see it all as myth/fable. A fairy tale for adults.

Of course, the mythology includes some need for villains...so I understand what you are attempting to portray. — Frank Apisa

You, may not. Tell me and I will confirm or deny.

You do feel that same way about Judas, right? — Frank Apisa

I think so. I base my view on Jesus offering a sap to Judas. A sop is kind of a bribe to your best friend to get a promise. In this case, a promise to turn Jesus over, just as Jesus wanted him to do to insure that Jesus could try to make the prophesy of a savior come true. Of course, he failed.

This view is confirmed by the story of the last supper which has all the other disciples not in any way trying to stop Judas from doing Jesus' bidding, thus also helping Jesus in his suicide to test the prophesy.

Regards
DL

But...that's just me, a non-Christian...and the 2.5 billion Christians who happen to think that interpretation works best. — Frank Apisa

They also think a genocidal and infanticidal god is a good god. Go with those immoral thinkers if you like.

You might wonder who their god really is though. This guy might make you think as it seems I could not do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

Regards
DL